ynot Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 it may be better then 25 years ago but you did not have to buy a pass to use the land your tax dollars paid for . and did the blm ever find the large sum of money that come up missing?? you know there is money that is made out there can we just get a bit of it for dumont ? Bruce, I am unfamiliar with any money that is missing. The TRT has kept a close eye on the budget and P&L for fee dollars since it's inception. The only $ that were missing ended up being found by the TRT and used to widen the river crossing. Could you explain what dollars you speak of? Also the fee money has been spent at Dumont and nowhere else. That is a federal law that the funds collected must be spent at the fee site. If you would like to attend the next Sub Group meeting I will let you know when it is as soon as the new group members are set and the meeting time is also set. Yes it was 25 years ago but there were never any bathrooms, concrete river crossing, rangers patrolling, EMT's and ambulances. If you had an accident someone had to drive to Tecopa and use a pay phone to get help. Quite different now wouldn't you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 "Politics are something that goes with goverment, always has always will. I am still amazed at the amount of politics that go into the Barstow office and the TRT AKA Dumont Sub-Group. It is certainly amazing to watch the ivory towers and the slow grinding wheel that is goverment. I know I was taken aback when I first got selected to the TRT. It is a non paying no power or control only suggestions gig and still there was so much BS that I wasn't sure i could deal with it. After awhile you kinda get numb and do what you can to help our cause". "If you would like to attend the next Sub Group meeting I will let you know when it is as soon as the new group members are set and the meeting time is also set". Sorry Terry, these two posts just hit me!!! I needed a good laugh after starting and following this thread!!!! And your work is appreciated!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertskyz Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 One thing I have noticed is that when It is quite civil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo_bruce Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) iam not sure if the money was found and i dont know how much it was but one of the rangers were talking about it. the last time i was at dumont. so you are telling me that every dollar made at dumont was spent at dumont and not put in to a general fund at the end of the year?? and spent els were and yes i would like to go the one of the meeting are they in barstow?? can you send me the info pm me thanks Edited July 25, 2009 by turbo_bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 iam not sure if the money was found and i dont know how much it was but one of the rangers were talking about it. the last time i was at dumont. so you are telling me that every dollar made at dumont was spent at dumont and not put in to a general fund at the end of the year?? and spent els were and yes i would like to go the one of the meeting are they in barstow?? can you send me the info pm me thanks Yes Bruce I am telling you that all funds collected are spent for Dumont. Wether it's personnel, equiptment etc. it's all spent there. As soon as I hear what's up with the sub group I will announce it. Questions are; A) Who's on the Sub Group B) When will be the next meeting be I do know it will be in Barstow and I don't know if I have been selected as Nevada's OHV rep yet. There maybe someone else who gets to get involved :ah: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuNe45oR Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 they will be missed whether or not they "bent" a rule. i understand the way management works and if the BLM decided it was big enough to let them go then so be it. the big idea is that they did a TON for the up-keep of our dunes! if you ask me rules are meant to be bent, theres always room for rules to be bent.. this is also again, up to the employer or enforcer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duniemonkie Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I would never call what they did for us an easy or fun job, but Ellen and Don made it seem like they really enjoyed it. They will be missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elpato Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Edited July 28, 2009 by elpato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltr450rider Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm not going to say anything, I mean ANYTHING, about the post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rhino Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I'm not going to say anything, I mean ANYTHING, about the post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot bob Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 was that the donation tractor / water truck combo ??? as far as i understood the blm kept no equipment out there it was donation just like the rhino. Terry you know i like and respect you emensly however i disagree whole heartedly with this entire line of thinking by the blm. that place is supposed to be" by and for the people" getting stuck or crashing out there in a barren place should be considered imminent danger. maybe not in this instance. but it trancends to a different scenario. because the rules would apply all the way around. if he was unqualified to operate the equipment and tore it up. then there would be a case for more harm than good. but i dont hear of that being the case. we all watch out for one another out there because it is a dangerous place , further the 5 dollars worth of fuel used ( aproxx) vrs 500 dollars. that is just simple common sense. whether your rich or your poor. and since the rules apply rich or poor. what if that person syuck didnt have 500 dolllars ?? he should abandon his vehicle to an impound and have no way home ?? and lose his stuff ?? all because he is poor? i undestand that this wasnt the scenario but you can agree that it trancends to these scenarios. so i say boulderdash . it was a good call by the camp host, and a terrible call on the part of the blm. As an operator i can tell you many times we help others. my bosses never got upset at us for rendering aid or help with there equipment. ( as long as we were not performing it as a "for hire" entity. I do not know the camp hosts, i dont know if there are other factors at play , and they just needed an excuse. I do know there was a "missing money" problem with the company that was working the entrance. and is part of the reason blm took that over. neither hear nor there to me. the act they did however was one of charity. and i have a hard time accepting that is proper grounds for a termination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duniemonkie Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 So this incident would have gone unnoticed had the pic of Don using the tractor not been published/posted somewhere, right? Did a blm person see this and blow the whistle or did some jackass with no life rat them out? Or do we even know? If this was already explained I apologize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 I want to go back to a previous statement. A solution rather than a complaint or problem! I do see a need for a volunteer/contract temporary employee program at Dumont that has the ability to help visitors in various ways. There has to be a person out there that can help with this ! Some one with the ability to write a "Grant Request" for the funding for a piece of equipment that would be able to work on the road on off days and be able to get people un stuck is neeeded, with a qualified operator. many people are trainable! A small front end loader would be ideal. Traction to get vehicles unstuck and also drag the bucket on the road. It doesn't have to be a "Blade" just to smooth out the washboard. It could be used for preventative measures to eliminate the deep sand where vehicles tend to get stuck after a bad wind storm. ie. like in front of the old vendor row, where many got stuck on one weekend. Any monies received for services to go back into the fund for the program. It can't be that hard, with the proper documentaion to administer this simple idea. Something for the TRT to approach BLM with?????????? Right now I see the BLM having to pay a maintenance worker to do the bathrooms.$$$$$$ Compound w/concrete pads, except for the Helo Pad, why???$$$$$ A Grant if I am correct. Hotels in Pahrump for either the Sheriffs or Rangers, I'm not sure which or who pays for that$$$$$$$ If I was out there for several months at a time I would appreciate something else to do to occupy my time except cleaning the bathrooms. I would hope that my duties wouldn't keep a BLM employee from earning a living. Does this play into it??? Travel time and milieage and fuel from Barstow for an employee $$$$$$$ Some food for thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas style Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 i can understand both sides of this. it is going to be hard to find hosts that care as much as they have. and BLM can be there own (and sometimes our) worst enemy. but i dont want BLM/host being a tow company. it all sounds good as we debate it here. but i can remember many weekends were we sat and watched people get stuck in a soft spot. people helped each other out and nobody was left in a hole. but could you imagine how many a$$hats would be beating on the hosts door on a big weekend. if they were known as the the tow people at dumont? guess if you dont have any friends and dont have the $$ for a tow company you better watch where you drive offroad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I want to go back to a previous statement. A solution rather than a complaint or problem! I do see a need for a volunteer/contract temporary employee program at Dumont that has the ability to help visitors in various ways. There has to be a person out there that can help with this ! Some one with the ability to write a "Grant Request" for the funding for a piece of equipment that would be able to work on the road on off days and be able to get people un stuck is neeeded, with a qualified operator. many people are trainable! A small front end loader would be ideal. Traction to get vehicles unstuck and also drag the bucket on the road. It doesn't have to be a "Blade" just to smooth out the washboard. It could be used for preventative measures to eliminate the deep sand where vehicles tend to get stuck after a bad wind storm. ie. like in front of the old vendor row, where many got stuck on one weekend. Any monies received for services to go back into the fund for the program. It can't be that hard, with the proper documentaion to administer this simple idea. Something for the TRT to approach BLM with?????????? Right now I see the BLM having to pay a maintenance worker to do the bathrooms.$$$$$$ Compound w/concrete pads, except for the Helo Pad, why???$$$$$ A Grant if I am correct. Hotels in Pahrump for either the Sheriffs or Rangers, I'm not sure which or who pays for that$$$$$$$ If I was out there for several months at a time I would appreciate something else to do to occupy my time except cleaning the bathrooms. I would hope that my duties wouldn't keep a BLM employee from earning a living. Does this play into it??? Travel time and milieage and fuel from Barstow for an employee $$$$$$$ Some food for thought? It's not that the equipment is not available. BLM already has the front end loader that was used and is out there all season. It stems from a liability issue plain and simple. BLM is not a sand moving nor a towing company. If you go off road you take your chances just like Vegas Style said in his post. The BLM will have someone who will stock and clean the bathrooms in Don and Ellen's place. Will it cost more? I don't think so for the short run as we won't be funding the salary that Don and Ellen both received nor transporting water, propane etc out to them. Yes it will be nice to find someone who cares about the dunes like they did and I don't think that will be that difficult. If I remember right BLM had a few applications for the position over the last couple of years. Government has lot's of rules about equipment (along with everything else) and the operator would have to be BLM certified in operating the machine and doing any road maintenance. This costs money as does everything associated with something that is in the middle of no where. As to the heli pad and concrete that was grant money and I have to agree that's it's overkill but that is the way grant $$ work. Although if your ever in the medical trailer waiting on a helicopter transport I am sure you will appreciate the concrete path to the copter instead of the rocky dirt one used to move you to the heli pad:) The Sheriffs transport and per diem for rooms and meals is paid directly from the user fees although with some of the grants we got this year they may supplement this but I will have to wait for a meeting to find out. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 i can understand both sides of this. it is going to be hard to find hosts that care as much as they have. and BLM can be there own (and sometimes our) worst enemy. but i dont want BLM/host being a tow company. it all sounds good as we debate it here. but i can remember many weekends were we sat and watched people get stuck in a soft spot. people helped each other out and nobody was left in a hole. but could you imagine how many a$$hats would be beating on the hosts door on a big weekend. if they were known as the the tow people at dumont? guess if you dont have any friends and dont have the $$ for a tow company you better watch where you drive offroad! I would assume it happened all lthe years Don and Elen were there. Big and off weekends!! OK, my arms are tired from And I am getting a brain cramp! I guess we stick with status quo. Have a good day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot bob Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) status quo my a$$ !!!! human kindness can no longer be rendered because of twisted manipulations. when are human beings going to figure it out. be kind, courteous and helpfull and it will come back around to you !!! love thy neighbor ??? its not hard to figure out. i hope someone sues the blm for not packing the parkinglot or setting a weight limit for the sand and then sued for abandonment and recovery costs. << sounds stupid huh. so is " its a liability we wont help you " i know im sounding radical but common sense is common sense. your sitting out there with nothing better to do. someone gets stuck. your required to sit and watch ?? guess i would lose that job in a heartbeat. but could you imagine how many a$$hats would be beating on the hosts door on a big weekend. if they were known as the the tow people at dumont? people who get stuck are not a$$ hats. and the majority have freinds to pull them out. and if the you were hosting there and you had work to do. they would have to wait . which could motivate some to seak help elsewhere. btw: look up the definition of a host ............ or .... if they came at you as if it were expected. they might not find what there looking for. Edited July 29, 2009 by barefoot bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock 350 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) I dont know Barefoot Bob, but I like him ! Good post Bob Edited July 29, 2009 by stock 350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo_bruce Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 status quo my a$$ !!!! human kindness can no longer be rendered because of twisted manipulations. when are human beings going to figure it out. be kind, courteous and helpfull and it will come back around to you !!! love thy neighbor ??? its not hard to figure out. i hope someone sues the blm for not packing the parkinglot or setting a weight limit for the sand and then sued for abandonment and recovery costs. << sounds stupid huh. so is " its a liability we wont help you " i know im sounding radical but common sense is common sense. your sitting out there with nothing better to do. someone gets stuck. your required to sit and watch ?? guess i would lose that job in a heartbeat. people who get stuck are not a$$ hats. and the majority have freinds to pull them out. and if the you were hosting there and you had work to do. they would have to wait . which could motivate some to seak help elsewhere. btw: look up the definition of a host ............ or .... if they came at you as if it were expected. they might not find what there looking for. i think people want a little more for how much they spend to stay at dumont. i know we got a few bath rooms and a river crossing and some other things and thats good but there is a lot of $$ made out there and alot of it has been wasted or not spent out there. can some one tell me what we get out at dumont that you dont get for free (tax dollars) every were els?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) So, How do we get beyond the "Status Quo". How do we get beyond/gain some creditability, with the enviromentalists that want us off their land. How do we get the BLM to be more "user" friendly. after all we are the "users" of the land not the overseer's of it. like so many others???? Look at the Mojve Preserve. It used to have many miles of roads that gave people access to a lot of neat areas. Now if you want to see most of it you will have to 'Hike" in. A nice summer hike huh??? As you all know, it's going the wrong way!!! Why do I bother even talking about it? not really, just seems like it! Edited July 29, 2009 by SANDAWG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo_bruce Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 So, How do we get beyond the "Status Quo". How do we get beyond/gain some creditability, with the enviromentalists that want us off their land. How do we get the BLM to be more "user" friendly. fter we are the "users" of the land not the overseer's of it. like so many others???? would be nice to know. i would like to be part of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 would be nice to know. i would like to be part of it Bruce, I appreciate the questions. It would be easist if you search this site for BLM and or Dumont TRT or Freinds of Dumont Dunes (FoDD). After reading all the posts you may see where your money goes and the things we try to get accomplished. If you have any questions after that I or someone on here would be glad to answer them for you. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltr450rider Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 So, How do we get beyond the "Status Quo". How do we get beyond/gain some creditability, with the enviromentalists that want us off their land. How do we get the BLM to be more "user" friendly. after all we are the "users" of the land not the overseer's of it. like so many others???? I just want to make a quick point of this, not starting an arguement. It's Everyone's land, thiers, ours, and anyones who desires to use it any way they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I just want to make a quick point of this, not starting an arguement. It's Everyone's land, thiers, ours, and anyones who desires to use it any way they want. OK, point taken. I do wonder how many of the radical environmentalists have even left the comfort of their homes or Offices to attemp to enjoy the "Land"? Edited July 30, 2009 by SANDAWG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 So, How do we get beyond the "Status Quo". How do we get beyond/gain some creditability, with the enviromentalists that want us off their land. How do we get the BLM to be more "user" friendly. after all we are the "users" of the land not the overseer's of it. like so many others???? Look at the Mojve Preserve. It used to have many miles of roads that gave people access to a lot of neat areas. Now if you want to see most of it you will have to 'Hike" in. A nice summer hike huh??? As you all know, it's going the wrong way!!! Why do I bother even talking about it? not really, just seems like it! This is the best place ever for this smiley. Sorry Pat. In my dealings with this stuff I have found one thing. The more you get involved and try to make a positive impact, the more dead ends you will hit. The BLM does actually listen very well to the public and takes thier opinion into consideration at the TRT meetings, but it is a government agency. You can't expect there will be any stretching of any of the rules. Here's what you do as a duner...just go to the dunes, keep em clean, stay in bounds, have fun, and enjoy them without breaking any of the area rules. You are never going to get the enviro's on your side. In the end it's all about money (for them) and that is why they try to take away our land use privilages. This thread sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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