80grit Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) I am starting to research which manufacturer and what size inverter to put in my toy hauler. Just curious which ones people are running and which ones to stay away from. Are there any key features that are a must have on the inverter. Are you running them with a 2 battery setup or is anyone running them with a 4 battery setup? Anyone running a solar panel to them? Any tips to the install? Edited August 13, 2009 by 80grit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakster884 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 (edited) Good topic. Would like to do the same for mine. Someone mentioned running 8 6v batteries on the tip post. let's hear some more please. Edited August 13, 2009 by Jakster884 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I'm running a 1750 W Xantrex, had it for at least 6 years. I needed one that would run a big micro while the Dish and big TV were on, I think when they are regular brand name and up in the watts the rating is for continuous but have a higher surge rating. It has thermal overload and Hi/Lo voltage protection. The only time it ever trips is using the elect for hot water 1500W and space out and use the micro 1500W. 4- 2' x 4' Solar panels, Solar Boost controller, if you're serious I can tell you what's up with the controllers, 8- 6V golf cart batteries. Anything specific just ask cause I'm into it :clown: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raspadoo Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 Runing 8 6Volt batts and a 2000w inverter. Runs anything in the coach but the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKracker Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 I am starting to research which manufacturer and what size inverter to put in my toy hauler. Just curious which ones people are running and which ones to stay away from. Are there any key features that are a must have on the inverter. Are you running them with a 2 battery setup or is anyone running them with a 4 battery setup? Anyone running a solar panel to them? Any tips to the install? I just installed a xantrex 1000w inverter/charger in my hauler, I was looking for something that was strong enough to run my TVs, satallite and other small stuff without having to run the generator.... it seemed like a waste to have a 65kw generator running about 160 watts. We still have to fire it up to run the AC, microwave, compressor, coffee pot and the wife's hair "tools". I am still running off of (2) 12v batteries without any problems. It is nice to set the channels only once and not everytime the kids want to watch tv or play video games. I was able to isolate one circuit that was looped through both TVs and the front room of the 5th wheel. There are 3 general grades of inverters; True or (Pure) Sinewave, Modified Sinewave & Square Sinewave. The cost for the Square sinewave is considerably cheaper but you will not be happy with the results, the pure sinewave is much more expensive; however, you can run very sensitive electronics with it. Make sure you go with either Modified Signwave or Pure sinewave. with the square sinewave, you will get the "snow" or "fuzz" in your TV or audio equipt. One last piece of info, I opted to go with an inverter/charger because some RV chargers cause "line noise" and it keeps things cleaner and simpler under the hood. Cost was also a factor......I was able to purchase and install for about 8 bills. I hope this helps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakster884 Posted August 13, 2009 Share Posted August 13, 2009 How often do you have to run the generator to charge the batteries. Also is there a setting to make the generator charge more than one at a time quicker. When I added one to my hauler it seems to take longer to charge both. Having 6-8 batteries this seems like it will take a while?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80grit Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 8-6 volts wow. What is the main advantage of switching to 6 volt batterys? Longer life? More amperage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 How often do you have to run the generator to charge the batteries. Also is there a setting to make the generator charge more than one at a time quicker. When I added one to my hauler it seems to take longer to charge both. Having 6-8 batteries this seems like it will take a while?? Haven't started my generator in probably a year, when I do, I have an Automotive charger 200Amp boost/ 40Amp continuous +2 more 10Amp chargers and the builtin charger/converter. I'll run the big charger at 200Amps for as long as I can with the other chargers too, sometimes 3-4 min @200 then at 40 for 5-10min then back to 200. Since I started tilting the solar panels up in fall/winter/spring and added 4 batteries to the 4 I had I pretty much have enough, unless I blast the stereo, 3- 4ch 400w amps bridged,3- 1fared caps, 6-12"subs etc, uses as much as the micro. Have a catalytic heater so no battery drain from wasteful furnace blower. I read that the most efficient furnace is only 60% efficient for the amount of propane used, not to mention OEM 1-2 battery setup croaks about 4AM. Some of the bigger pushers have a jumper for the charger/converter that bumps the 10Amp rate to 40Amps. A friends 38 Dutch Star was always low volts so I read his docs and discovered the dual rate. The reason the OEM chargers are such wimps, besides the cost cutting manf, is if the chargers were bigger with a switch is the usual elect/mech challenged user stays in parks plugged in and arriving with 12.8V batteries would overcharge them, a 40Amp charge will get to 15Volts + and fully charged batteries should only have a "float" charge of 13.6-13.8Volts. As a side note a battery at 12.25 volts is 50% discharged, everytime you take them lower you shorten the overall lifespan, better to charge twice as often for half the time. I'm sure there's more ?, I didn't learn this in an afternoon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 oh yeah, before I forget, some inverters don't have a fan and some the fan runs all the time, but Little Red Dune Riding Hood likes the inverters that temp control the fan to run when getting hot just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raspadoo Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) 8-6 volts wow. What is the main advantage of switching to 6 volt batterys? Longer life? More amperage? They supply a charge much longer, but most of them you have to service, and when they vent (not sealed) they make a friggin mess.... My gen is a 7.5kw and it charges the batts at about 30 amps. I run it about an hour in the am and an hour in the pm and batts are always fully charged. read this link it helps explain the different batts. http://www.koa.com/familyzone/camping101/a...tenance_522.htm Edited August 14, 2009 by raspadoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptNkllm Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Thought this might help someone http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm I found on another site so ... not really my find Capt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 The best battery considering cost per amp/hour per years of use is a traction battery, golf carts/ forklifts etc, the plates are thick and heavy, physically not very big but 65lbs each, gels are nice but finicky on charge rate window, the so called "RV/marine" battery is between the thin/many plate starting battery and the traction battery, not a serious dry camp selection, and the "starved cell" glass mat are ok but can be pricey. The 1st 4 glof cart batts lasted 8 years and were still good when I added the 2nd 4 but the books say change as a group and I had one explode from a spark that went under the lid, over the frame and BOOM, hydrogen bomb. The 1st 4 cost $45.00 each at Sams club, the recent Costco Gcart batts (Exide)were around $70-75 I think but they pay $9.00 each for the old ones. Yes, flooded cell batteries have maintenance, especially if you hit them with lots of amps, they gas, but they make caps now that traps the gas and it turns liquid and goes back in the batt. Keep the battery to inverter cables short, under 5 ft and big guage. I made mine with copper lugs from Walmart and welding cable from batt group to inverter and a long HD battery cable cut for the jumpers, the Walmart premade cables are junk, the lugs are basically a thin copper tube with cable all the way through then mashed with a press, drilled thru shell and wire. Propane torch and solder to make them last a long time. Keep the batt tops dry, when damp there's a constant discharge, put a volt meter on the damp plastic case and see 3-4 volts easily. Solar can be expensive but with fuel, maintenance and the all too often generator problems solar makes sense if you can afford the upfront cost and not going to retire from doing and going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) 80grit, The 6 volt Gcart battery uses heavy plates, made to supply moderate amount of power continuously and when you series 2 6Volts you have a 12Volt equivalent with lots of amp/hours and weighs 130lbs. Each batt is only 7"wide, 10" long and 10" tall and 65lbs. The original deep cycle battery. 12 Volt ,even when they say deep cycle, will seldom survive the number of times a Gcart batt can be discharged and charged, "deep cycle" doesn't mean use it till it's dead then recharge. That's what I did 30 years ago with my 1st deep cycle experience, lol, I thought deep, WTF? Edited August 14, 2009 by RUn2it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 I just installed a xantrex 1000w inverter/charger in my hauler, I was looking for something that was strong enough to run my TVs, satallite and other small stuff without having to run the generator.... it seemed like a waste to have a 65kw generator running about 160 watts. We still have to fire it up to run the AC, microwave, compressor, coffee pot and the wife's hair "tools". I am still running off of (2) 12v batteries without any problems. It is nice to set the channels only once and not everytime the kids want to watch tv or play video games. I was able to isolate one circuit that was looped through both TVs and the front room of the 5th wheel. There are 3 general grades of inverters; True or (Pure) Sinewave, Modified Sinewave & Square Sinewave. The cost for the Square sinewave is considerably cheaper but you will not be happy with the results, the pure sinewave is much more expensive; however, you can run very sensitive electronics with it. Make sure you go with either Modified Signwave or Pure sinewave. with the square sinewave, you will get the "snow" or "fuzz" in your TV or audio equipt. One last piece of info, I opted to go with an inverter/charger because some RV chargers cause "line noise" and it keeps things cleaner and simpler under the hood. Cost was also a factor......I was able to purchase and install for about 8 bills. I hope this helps.... 8 bills? You mean $800, and it's a 1000 Watt inverter/charger? Did you have it installed or DIY? Rob, I just thought about the installation, you know how you're going to do it? Some install with an isolator so you don't accidently backfeed your inverter with shore power, The problem with this install is you're providing power for all circuits unless you're a real sparky but isolating a few circuits still powers up everything on those circuits. I've read where some bare essential people have made an extension cord with male plugs on both ends and backfeed thru 1 circuit to the box and power up everything, but the 1st circuit will likely be tripping a breaker and someone starts the gen or shore power and poof! I wanted to be able to power the TV, Dish receiver, micro and the elect mode waterheater (if I had surplus juice) so I came up with this idea, 3 double pole/double throw 30 amp switches, they're a switch that's usually used as a 3-way, up energizes 1 device, middle is off and down energizes a 2nd device. I wired it backwards, instead of power hooked to the middle connections and switching up or down to power different devices I hooked the micro, for example, to the middle connection and hooked inverter power to one end and generator/shore power to the other end so flip switch up = inverter, down = gen/shore power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 The micro/water heater panel Oh yeah, most electronic stuff have some current draw when turned off, I think my Dish receiver uses nearly the same power off or on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80grit Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 Rob, I just thought about the installation, you know how you're going to do it? Some install with an isolator so you don't accidently backfeed your inverter with shore power, The problem with this install is you're providing power for all circuits unless you're a real sparky but isolating a few circuits still powers up everything on those circuits. I've read where some bare essential people have made an extension cord with male plugs on both ends and backfeed thru 1 circuit to the box and power up everything, but the 1st circuit will likely be tripping a breaker and someone starts the gen or shore power and poof! I wanted to be able to power the TV, Dish receiver, micro and the elect mode waterheater (if I had surplus juice) so I came up with this idea, 3 double pole/double throw 30 amp switches, they're a switch that's usually used as a 3-way, up energizes 1 device, middle is off and down energizes a 2nd device. I wired it backwards, instead of power hooked to the middle connections and switching up or down to power different devices I hooked the micro, for example, to the middle connection and hooked inverter power to one end and generator/shore power to the other end so flip switch up = inverter, down = gen/shore power. I just started diagraming it out. Looks like some of the Xantrex have built in auto sensing for shore power and will switch automatically. Also will auto start the generator if the batterys fall to a certain level. So im still playing with schematics before I come up with a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKracker Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 8 bills? You mean $800, and it's a 1000 Watt inverter/charger? Did you have it installed or DIY? Yes, I paid around $500 for the inverter(xantrex HF 1000), about $120 for cables, Romex, connectors, j-box, breaker and high amp fuse (dont forget the fuse!!) and about $150 for the install. I did some of the install myself but had an electrician hook it up to the panel and run the romex... "a man has got to know his limitations" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUn2it Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Yes, I paid around $500 for the inverter(xantrex HF 1000), about $120 for cables, Romex, connectors, j-box, breaker and high amp fuse (dont forget the fuse!!) and about $150 for the install. I did some of the install myself but had an electrician hook it up to the panel and run the romex... "a man has got to know his limitations" So when your inverter is on all your circuits are hot....? You unplug all the phantom loads or have a switch or? What do you have for isolation, like when you start the generator, the unit auto switches to the charger? My 1750 Xantrex is probably 7-8 years old and has no charger and was $166. A friend has a big Xantrex inverter/charger, as big as a 5 gallon gas can, don't remember exactly the capacity, like 4000W and a 100Amp charger, cost him $1100 if I remember correctly. My generator's best friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80grit Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 So when your inverter is on all your circuits are hot....? You unplug all the phantom loads or have a switch or? What do you have for isolation, like when you start the generator, the unit auto switches to the charger? My 1750 Xantrex is probably 7-8 years old and has no charger and was $166. A friend has a big Xantrex inverter/charger, as big as a 5 gallon gas can, don't remember exactly the capacity, like 4000W and a 100Amp charger, cost him $1100 if I remember correctly. My generator's best friend Solar panels are trick! Very nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKracker Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 So when your inverter is on all your circuits are hot....? You unplug all the phantom loads or have a switch or? What do you have for isolation, like when you start the generator, the unit auto switches to the charger? My 1750 Xantrex is probably 7-8 years old and has no charger and was $166. A friend has a big Xantrex inverter/charger, as big as a 5 gallon gas can, don't remember exactly the capacity, like 4000W and a 100Amp charger, cost him $1100 if I remember correctly. My generator's best friend PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireKracker Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I have only one circuit hot with the inverter, I ran romex from the inverter to a single throw breaker that I installed above the inverter, then ran it to a J-box that I installed behind my trailer's breaker panel, which happens to be under my refrigerator. I then pulled the wires that I wanted to remain hot from the the trailer's breaker and connected it to the wires in the J-box that I installed. When the shore line is used or the generator is running, the AC current travels through the transfer swich in the inverter/charger directly to the isolated circuit. If I store the trailer without a shoreline, then I just flip the breaker so it opens the circuit. This system works really well for what my needs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indasand Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 found this.... maybe a lil to basic but wth... http://rvbasics.com/techtips/rv-power-inverter-choose.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80grit Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Rob, I just thought about the installation, you know how you're going to do it? Some install with an isolator so you don't accidently backfeed your inverter with shore power, The problem with this install is you're providing power for all circuits unless you're a real sparky but isolating a few circuits still powers up everything on those circuits. I've read where some bare essential people have made an extension cord with male plugs on both ends and backfeed thru 1 circuit to the box and power up everything, but the 1st circuit will likely be tripping a breaker and someone starts the gen or shore power and poof! I wanted to be able to power the TV, Dish receiver, micro and the elect mode waterheater (if I had surplus juice) so I came up with this idea, 3 double pole/double throw 30 amp switches, they're a switch that's usually used as a 3-way, up energizes 1 device, middle is off and down energizes a 2nd device. I wired it backwards, instead of power hooked to the middle connections and switching up or down to power different devices I hooked the micro, for example, to the middle connection and hooked inverter power to one end and generator/shore power to the other end so flip switch up = inverter, down = gen/shore power. Lee Ive had more time to think about this. The isolation switchs make sense and are inexpensive. The bigger Xantrex's are pretty pricey and the standalone auto transfer switches are also pricey. I have 4-15 amp circuits on my fuse box that I wanted to isolate out on the inverter. Just debating if I should go with individual isolation switches or go with a larger ganged one (one switch controlling all 4 fifteen amp circuits). That way I could just switch it back to shore/genset, fire the generator to start the re charging. Did you add a battery volt meter to the inside of your RV to monitor battery levels? Edited September 16, 2009 by 80grit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80grit Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 I finished my inverter project and converted to 6 volt batterys. Here is the finished set up. Original pic of battery compartment with 2-12 volt supplys & winch connections. Here is the conversion Inverter is the white box on the left. Its a 3000 what inverter with 100 amp charger. Running two 30 amp lines to and from it. The grey box on the right is dual 120volt 30 amp breakers from the inverter (I pulled two 30 amp lines out of the inverter to feed the trailer) The next thing to the right is a 300 amp DC fuse I welded up a collar for the batterys and welded 4 steel strips under the batterys for support of the battery weight and then tied those together on each end with a threaded rod. (They wont slide out of place ) Then went with 4-300 amp hour sealed life line batterys (they are no maintenance batterys) They are 93 lbs a piece In this picture I added a sub panel to take the supply from the inverter and supply 4 - 15 circuits to the trailer. Everything but the air conditioners are on this. The panel on the right is the original panel that supplys 50 amp service to the trailer. I put in a double pole double throw 30 amp breaker in to supply the inverter with 2 - 30 amp circuits. Although I would never use that much power, it leaves the charger with plenty of power to charge the batterys at 100 amp charging rate when the generator is running. There was a small 45 watt charger where the sub panel is now and I took that out as it was no longer needed. The whole system is accessable inside the trailer via a remote control It was a fun project to tackle just took a while to plan it all out. Installation was not hard at all. Ill run some tests this next trip to see how long I can go before recharging via generator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rhino Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Wow turned out awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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