sandawg Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 (edited) Pat I live right down the street from you, However I cant be ready till 5:30, I guess I can zip down in my tracker I am sure I could make it in a hour to tacopa. That's really pushing it IMHO. I keep thinking about the way traffic will be on the 215 going west and then Blue Diamont for people heading to Mountains Edge etc. I just don't feel confortable leaving any later that 5 at the latest! sorry. Let me know!The 1-15 interchange, construction then traffic on Rainbow or Dutango etc. Edited September 12, 2011 by sandawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Terry, While I would like to get off on another foot and be there Wednesday. I have several issues to resolve before hand. It turns out the battery in my truck died in long term parking and it's no longer stocked although it's supposed to be here later this afternoon. My RZR needed work before I left. In the perfect world I would like to visit the new August fencing along the T&T BEFORE the meeting. In addition my trailers are stored across town. With my luck lately I'll get the truck fixed, get the trailer, risk taking the RZR down the grade and lose a wheel as it's a wheel bearing issue. The thing to remember when dealing with the Barstow BLM is yes duners mean a lot of $$$ to them. Greenie challenges in court costs everybody lot's of $$$$. It also is highly likely that Brown and the conservatory have obtained land (old Tecopa comes to mind) that in time will be given to the BLM. There's some program with tax advantages to do so. So while duners mean some $$$ to the BLM they aren't gonna upset Brown. Old Tecopa can be accessed via the Sperry Wash route and Western Talc Road the later of which the BLM or Brown have nothing to do with...yet. So in order to "protect" Old Tecopa it's likely that the fight is going to be in Sperry Wash. I don't know where the north edge of 5 miles of the Wild River recreation is exactly but as it’s 5.6 miles via the filled bridge it wouldn't surprise me that Sperry (or the last river crossing getting to it) is outside of it. If you don’t know the filled bridge I speak of it’s at the end of the wash that one enters just past the entrance by going pretty much straight instead of climbing the hill to the more commonly used camping areas or if you prefer at the extreme east edge of Dumont recreation area. You may not care, Brown doesn't and the Barstow BLM doesn't. There's old bridge crossing (which was never filled) on the T&T inside the Tecopa ACEC and an area known as the Palisades beyond that. It was an easy hike from the south boundary of the ACEC at least until non-native grown made crossing the river impossible on foot let alone with an out of bounds ATV. The Palisades is one of my most favorite places and was well enjoyed by others in the T&T group. Problem is the Barstow BLM built the post and wire at Sperry to “protect” the ACEC and turn the evil off-roaders east. It added about 6 miles round trip to that hike and my health simply wouldn’t and is unlikely to ever permit that addition. We lost that fight and as you said it isn’t going to ever change. Another bell rung. As painful as that was I accepted that fact and I and T&T group vowed “never another inch.” Needless to say we have lost miles since then and so have you. Perhaps you don’t realize it but it is a fact. Dumont Duners are slowly being fenced in. Once that is complete it’s much easier to close the remaining entrance. The law isn’t an immoveable object that will always protect you. Perhaps it should be but the reality is that it isn’t. I know I’m gonna lose almost everybody on this forum and I don’t promote entering closed areas. My views on the Barstow BLM and the BLM in general were formed from experience. My views on land use were formed in the 70’s with Guthrie, Dylan and with The Five Man Electrical Band. If that makes me negative and again so be it. From “This Land is Your Land” Written by Guthrie as performed by Dylan and not surprisingly left out of much of the time since. As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there And that sign said - no tress passin' But on the other side... it didn't say nothin! Now that side was made for you and me! From “Signs” The Five Man Electrical Band. What gives you the right? To put up a fence to keep me out or to keep mother nature in. If God was here he'd tell you to your face, Man, you're some kinda sinner" Sign, sign, everywhere a sign Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign? Sorry about the Great American Novel of a posting but I may not resolve be able to resolve the issues above and make it to the meeting. Eli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam @ GTP Off Road Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I don't think i will be able to email anything to them till after this meeting. Since I am not sure what the plan is or how it will affect us, yet. I will also want to know info from the guys who know more about what we are looking for so I can make sure to push those objectives in my email. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 "written comments will be solicited, but oral comments will not be taken". Unbelievable simply unF'n Unbelievable Eli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Tecopa Community Center may not hold too many. Get there early and get in line. Otherwise you may find yourselves standing outside a meeting filled with greenies. Been there done that too. Eli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatooedwhtboy Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 im gonna be heading out there around 5pm i have room for 3 if anyone wants to car pool i live in southern highland (blue diamond and decatur/ jones) PM me if you need a lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) I don't think i will be able to email anything to them till after this meeting. Since I am not sure what the plan is or how it will affect us, yet. I will also want to know info from the guys who know more about what we are looking for so I can make sure to push those objectives in my email. Anything regarding taking recreation areas from those that want to utilize them is fine. About all the meeting will be is a presentation on the Armargosa River Plan. you will see how thing happen when the BLM is involved and a chance to see and participate with you written comments. Do your research on different areas that have been closed in the country, who wants them closed and how we can help to prevent it. There are a lot of organizations that oppose closing areas. You will learn much more by reading and studying the issues. This is only a minor issue to most but if we don't start to show our support to groups trying to oppose closures we don't stand a chance. Your email doesn't need to be specific to this issue. Just spill your guts about your fears that eventuallly you will no longer be able to use Puclic Lands! Here's a start for you to read. http://www.lvrj.com/news/39656747.html http://www.friendsof...lRiversAmargosa http://oldtrailmaste...susan-sorrells/ http://www.amargosaconservancy.org/index.php/who-we-are Edited September 13, 2011 by sandawg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 "written comments will be solicited, but oral comments will not be taken". Unbelievable simply unF'n Unbelievable Eli Eli, I agree 100% with that post and in the previous post as I know both songs very well. I am sorry you may not make it as I am just not that familiar with the area they are discussing but I want to learn. If you don't make it I would like to sit down sometime shortly afterwards with you as you do know the area and I want mine and the others that are either attending or not to have that knowledge to work with in their e-mails. I have an appointment to speak to the BLM Wildlife Biologist tomorrow morning to find out why and when the decision to take verbal comments was made. As to the meeting itself, all I can say is I still believe attending will be good for all that are willing to follow up with a written comment. Otherwise it may be a waste of your time. I am going armed with a notebook and pen to take notes and my camera to take pictures of the maps that they most certainly have up to show the efffected area. I am still driving out and so far in my truck I have Ken and am picking up rap rider at rainbow & Blue Diamond. I can hold till 5:30 to leave if someone needs a little time after getting off work(JIM) But we will be flying low to get there on time. So let me know who needs a ride. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam @ GTP Off Road Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 maybe i should bring my helmet and go-pro. i can record and make sure they know i'm not an eco-terrorist at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Eli, I agree 100% with that post and in the previous post as I know both songs very well. I am sorry you may not make it as I am just not that familiar with the area they are discussing but I want to learn. If you don't make it I would like to sit down sometime shortly afterwards with you as you do know the area and I want mine and the others that are either attending or not to have that knowledge to work with in their e-mails. I have an appointment to speak to the BLM Wildlife Biologist tomorrow morning to find out why and when the decision to take verbal comments was made. As to the meeting itself, all I can say is I still believe attending will be good for all that are willing to follow up with a written comment. Otherwise it may be a waste of your time. I am going armed with a notebook and pen to take notes and my camera to take pictures of the maps that they most certainly have up to show the efffected area. I am still driving out and so far in my truck I have Ken and am picking up rap rider at rainbow & Blue Diamond. I can hold till 5:30 to leave if someone needs a little time after getting off work(JIM) But we will be flying low to get there on time. So let me know who needs a ride. Terry Terry I think if we are going to do any good we should sit before the written comment period expires. I'm retired so it certainly should be possible to get together. We need to get our hands on the written purposed plan and all maps. If they want to play Freedom of Information Act games I'll play but I don't start with a pipe. The bell on oral comments has rung and they won't change it. The meeting is simply and by design too short to allow them. Don't waste much of your time with trying to change that. If I manage to pull it off I'll be leaving Wednesday morning and running the grade to the North Pole and possibly running up Sperry Wash route to Sperry. Likely won't know until tomorrow late afternoon or evening if it's going to happen. It may be a waste of time but it also maybe worth another attempt to keep from losing any more miles. If at all possible I'll be there. RZR's are SxS's they have at two seats. I try to avoid the holiday weekends but if I'm out there when you are your welcome to come along. Eli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Terry I think if we are going to do any good we should sit before the written comment period expires. I'm retired so it certainly should be possible to get together. We need to get our hands on the written purposed plan and all maps. If they want to play Freedom of Information Act games I'll play but I don't start with a pipe. The bell on oral comments has rung and they won't change it. The meeting is simply and by design too short to allow them. Don't waste much of your time with trying to change that. If I manage to pull it off I'll be leaving Wednesday morning and running the grade to the North Pole and possibly running up Sperry Wash route to Sperry. Likely won't know until tomorrow late afternoon or evening if it's going to happen. It may be a waste of time but it also maybe worth another attempt to keep from losing any more miles. If at all possible I'll be there. RZR's are SxS's they have at two seats. I try to avoid the holiday weekends but if I'm out there when you are your welcome to come along. Eli I have a rzrs also but when I take it to Dumont it's paddeled up so a ride along would be great. I agree we will need maps and see if we can go to work on them. I don't know but I can guess why public comments are not going to be taken i can see Brown and Sorrels hands all over that. I think we as duners need to attend just for a show of strength and to gleen as much info as possible on what the hell there up to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eli Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I have a rzrs also but when I take it to Dumont it's paddeled up so a ride along would be great. I agree we will need maps and see if we can go to work on them. I don't know but I can guess why public comments are not going to be taken i can see Brown and Sorrels hands all over that. I think we as duners need to attend just for a show of strength and to gleen as much info as possible on what the hell there up to now. Certainly Brown and Sorrels will attempt to stack the meeting. Neither are stupid. Therefore my get there early and get in line post. IMHO they aren't behind the no comments decision but it serves them. Again the BLM has taken ignoring public comment to an art form. None the less I'm willing to pick up my lance once more. Perhaps between us we can figure out how to do things differently than I always have done things and obtain different results. If you are paddeled up Sperry Wash isn't a place to visit. For which I will have to pay dearly I may try to steal the wife's Jeep. Dinging a rocker panel in the wash will get me in deeper than...well you get the idea. Worse case I'll just take the truck and forgo finding the fence. If Barstow built a fence in August they are under a lot pressure to get er done. IMHO this plan is going to go down fast at least by government standards. Eli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 Ok, I just got off the phone with BLM. The reason the meeting was set upwithout a comment period is that they didn't think there would be enough people attending to justify a court reporter and the expense that goes with that. Now that they see there may be a pretty good size group they have decided to allow an "open " mic set-up so if anyone as comments or suggestions than there will be a time for it. However they will take notes but you are going to have to put it in e-mail form if you want it in there record. They do want to hear about what we have to say 2) There are no plans to close Sperry wash at any time to OHV use. The trailhead and river crossing to Dumont have been "Cherry stemmed" into the wild and wilderness river bill and can not be played with or changed. This was confirmed with the BLM area manager last week in a phone conversation. #) Yes the fencing team is hard at work on the east side of the T&T railroad bed. However they are only post & cabling some of it as it gets close to the dune's edges and the intrusion's have been the worst. The T&T rail bed is open and will remain so. There was an instince that the post& cable be set up so that when it crosses the T&T just near the north pole of Dumont that there will be access to the railbed without a gate of any type. I believe they are going to do some kind of off set line. That post and cable will then continue out aways towards the south pole to keep again the highest area's of intrusions to the closed areas and the AECE areas established a long time ago. So they want us there, I believe we should give them what they want. They did ask that we not bring to many tomato's to throw at them if possible. I told them that we use rocks and hand grenades! I look forward to seeing how this all turns out. I doubt we will make the Brown's and Sorrel's happy but "Frankly Scarlet I don't give a Dam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam @ GTP Off Road Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 This might turn out to be fun. I am sure I will come up with something to say, hopefully in our favor... lol. I may just sit, listen, and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 It's all a big huge conspiracy!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Somwhere in the thread or a p.m. I put the wrong information out to people about the meeting. I just can't find it now. I at first I thought they were talking about the Hot Springs east of Tecopa. That is incorrect. Tecopa Hot Springs Road is the road at the triangle, with the big trees, in the center of Tecopa that goes north and runs back into the 127. I should have made sure before I put out the wrong info! My appologies So this adds 10-20 minutes on my trip! Tecopa Community Center 400 Tecopa Hot Springs Road Tecopa, CA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) Somwhere in the thread or a p.m. I put the wrong information out to people about the meeting. I just can't find it now. I at first I thought they were talking about the Hot Springs east of Tecopa. That is incorrect. Tecopa Hot Springs Road is the road at the triangle, with the big trees, in the center of Tecopa that goes north and runs back into the 127. I should have made sure before I put out the wrong info! My appologies So this adds 10-20 minutes on my trip! Tecopa Community Center 400 Tecopa Hot Springs Road Tecopa, CA. Pat I am pretty sure the Town Community Center is located across from the hot springs on hot Springs rd.It would be the place you would have paid your dump fees if you have ever dumped your tanks at the RV park It may be 5 minutes off of HWY 127 on Hot Springs road and to the left Edited September 13, 2011 by ynot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Pat I am pretty sure the Town Community Center is located across from the hot springs on hot Springs rd.It would be the place you would have paid your dump fees if you have ever dumped your tanks at the RV park It may be 5 minutes off of HWY 127 on Hot Springs road and to the left [/quote ] I agree, are you going thru Pahrump to 127. I"m going to take the other way to Tecopa and then right on Tecopa Hot Springs Road to the Community Center. I know that way better and for an old man that's a good thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) Nope I will be taking the Old tecopa road. Fastest way to get there. Watch out for the Super troopers! Edited September 13, 2011 by ynot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAND~~SNAKE Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 terry pm sent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsky70 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Really wish I could attend, but I'm away again in the great Show Me state.... Really hate not being there.... I wish we as a group would come together as one, maybe then we could start to get something done... Hopefully alot more show up, stand up and speak up...SF Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Really wish I could attend, but I'm away again in the great Show Me state.... Really hate not being there.... I wish we as a group would come together as one, maybe then we could start to get something done... Hopefully alot more show up, stand up and speak up...SF Woody I actually am starting to see that happen Mike. Little rough at the start but I think we can see some bonding on this and will look for more as we go. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam @ GTP Off Road Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 All right, this might be kinda long, but i have been working on my email/letter and wanted to share. I want to get every point i can across. Save OHV Lands What is the purpose of preserving lands, species, and water ways if no one can be there to enjoy it? If I can’t, today or tomorrow go and see these American assets then how will my children or your children be able to enjoy them? Public land is not to be protected FROM the public but protected FOR the public as a source of enjoyment and economic growth for this generation and the generations to come. There is a broken culture which puts higher priority on the demands of environmental extremists than on the needs of ALL American Citizens and Communities. It is time to give voice to ALL Americans and not allow these extremists to take away Americans rights for OUR land. My name is Adam Czesnikowski and I am here to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH as an American and Offroad enthusiast STOP taking away OUR land. These new and extremely restricting policies are becoming more and more like a Monarchs rule in the 1300s then a modern management and control of federally owned PUBLIC land. Except for the modern lovely fencing of course. It is time we work to preserve the lands and manage them FOR the people to use and enjoy, now and for years to come. As each area gets closed or limited down for OHV use the economy suffers. There are bike salespeople, repair, and retail stores all making their living on the use of these vehicles. Many people rely on OHVs to be able to see these areas as they are unable to get there any other way. EVERY American has the right to have access to OUR PUBLIC lands. The ideas of the few on how they can increase their business by using public money are an example of what is wrong with America and the corrupt system in place to assist them in the name of “save the land”. While these same few will take an offroaders money, they wait to stab us in the back and take away our recreation area. Well if we just close this area, just put one fence here, one gate there. Soon there are dozens of areas closed, hundreds of miles of fencing, and plenty of gates to keep AMERICANS from using OUR land, set aside for PUBLIC use. So maybe you are a hiker, or you love birdwatching, GREAT be a free American and enjoy those activities. Myself, and many others, we LOVE offroading. I am asking, please don’t take away my rights as an American, don’t take away my freedom, don’t take away public lands from what I love, my OHV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 All right, this might be kinda long, but i have been working on my email/letter and wanted to share. I want to get every point i can across. Save OHV Lands What is the purpose of preserving lands, species, and water ways if no one can be there to enjoy it? If I can't, today or tomorrow go and see these American assets then how will my children or your children be able to enjoy them? Public land is not to be protected FROM the public but protected FOR the public as a source of enjoyment and economic growth for this generation and the generations to come. There is a broken culture which puts higher priority on the demands of environmental extremists than on the needs of ALL American Citizens and Communities. It is time to give voice to ALL Americans and not allow these extremists to take away Americans rights for OUR land. My name is Adam Czesnikowski and I am here to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH as an American and Offroad enthusiast STOP taking away OUR land. These new and extremely restricting policies are becoming more and more like a Monarchs rule in the 1300s then a modern management and control of federally owned PUBLIC land. Except for the modern lovely fencing of course. It is time we work to preserve the lands and manage them FOR the people to use and enjoy, now and for years to come. As each area gets closed or limited down for OHV use the economy suffers. There are bike salespeople, repair, and retail stores all making their living on the use of these vehicles. Many people rely on OHVs to be able to see these areas as they are unable to get there any other way. EVERY American has the right to have access to OUR PUBLIC lands. The ideas of the few on how they can increase their business by using public money are an example of what is wrong with America and the corrupt system in place to assist them in the name of "save the land". While these same few will take an offroaders money, they wait to stab us in the back and take away our recreation area. Well if we just close this area, just put one fence here, one gate there. Soon there are dozens of areas closed, hundreds of miles of fencing, and plenty of gates to keep AMERICANS from using OUR land, set aside for PUBLIC use. So maybe you are a hiker, or you love birdwatching, GREAT be a free American and enjoy those activities. Myself, and many others, we LOVE offroading. I am asking, please don't take away my rights as an American, don't take away my freedom, don't take away public lands from what I love, my OHV. Well said! E-mail to BLM Barstow and take a copy with you tonight to submit personally. At least that is what I am doing to be sure it doesn't gget lost in cyberspace or where ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Well said! E-mail to BLM Barstow and take a copy with you tonight to submit personally. At least that is what I am doing to be sure it doesn't gget lost in cyberspace or where ever. This is the e-mail address provided for emailing comments... amargosa@blm.gov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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