more wastefull spending

[Vegas FX400]

Well said Sand~Snake, well said!!!!!

[CaptNkllm]

The people in question do frequent this forum...I think this kind of a sounding board to see if anyone else was paying attention at some degree... I am sure an email or 2 will be sent.

Capt

If you are that passionate about the issue then why aren't you taking the time to address your concerns with the appropriate agency instead of ranting on a forum which isn't going to achieve anything...you don't like something then do something about it or at least make an appropriate effort! You're wasting your time and effort posting it here, this isn't going to change anything...they might decide to be out there on every big weekend, then what are you going to do?? How far you willing to push them out there to stand up for what you think is right and wrong??

(This isn't directed to anyone specific )

[Jmanx]

I like pizza!!!

I like DONUTS!! Hee Heee

[wsky70]

Just a little thing called Crime Prevention.... Now the word is spreading about and people will think twice before coming out with that stuff....SF Woody

[mush]

nice find Bob!!

[barefoot bob]

If you are that passionate about the issue then why aren't you taking the time to address your concerns with the appropriate agency instead of ranting on a forum which isn't going to achieve anything...you don't like something then do something about it or at least make an appropriate effort! You're wasting your time and effort posting it here, this isn't going to change anything...they might decide to be out there on every big weekend, then what are you going to do?? How far you willing to push them out there to stand up for what you think is right and wrong??

(This isn't directed to anyone specific )

lol what do you think i just did !

i dont think you realise the people that read ddr. im pretty sure it is being discussed and looked into.

this forum is "dumont issues" this of course is an issue.

and this might help an honest citizen being aware of there rights.

Just a little thing called Crime Prevention.... Now the word is spreading about and people will think twice before coming out with that stuff....SF Woody

"City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000), the Supreme Court ruled that discretionary checkpoints or general crime-fighting checkpoints are not allowed."

I like pizza!!!

thats why your fat, and your car wont start .lol, and didnt come dune with me .

Edited November 2, 2012 by barefoot bob

[Jmanx]

Bob, thanks for digging up some case law on this situation. But don't just quote half of the court holdings, then start claiming 4th Amendment Violations.

Bob's part..... "Police may not conduct roadblocks "whose primary purpose is to detect evidence of ordinary criminal wrongdoing." The part Bob forgot to post..."Such roadblocks must have a specific primary purpose, such as keeping roadways safe from impaired drivers, or enforcing border security." This is cut and pasted directly from the court holding section of the case law. Now the important part is the "specific primary purpose" clause. As far as I understand, and I did not witness the may-lay down at the gate, but there was a DRUG dog walking around peoples stuff. A DRUG dog has a specific primary purpose...wanna take a guess what that might be?? It's safe to deduct that removing DRUGS would help to reduce ordinary criminal wrongdoing, but it's primary purpose is to detect drugs. AND, a dog can walk around your vehicle as long as you're not detained for a period of time as to shock the court. We usually say a couple of minutes. Soooo, if people were stopped, buying passes and a dog is walked around their stuff while in line, there is no 4th Amendment Violation. You don't need a Search Warrant to walk a dog around. Now, did anyone actually tell the cop're NO, you can't come in, after the dog DID NOT hit on their vehicle?? If they entered w/o a S/W after you said no, thats a very clear 4th Amn violation. Did anyone actually just drive around the other's who were stopped buying passes and talking with the cop'rs? I'm just curious if it happened, and if they were chased down for no reason. Or were these contacts all consensual, meaning did the cop'rs just okie-doke their way into peoples castles with consent?

A cut/paste from court holding on CA vs Carney..."A motor home is subject to the automobile exception to the 4th Amendment search warrant requirement because it is readily movable." The key point to this case is the READILY MOVABLE clause. If you're driving your MoHo down Dumont RD, guess what, it's READILY MOVABLE and Leo does not need a warrant to chech the reason as to why the dog hit. If its parked in an RV park, then it does not fall under the automobile exception to the 4th Amendment and a search warrant is DEFINATELY needed, even if a dog hit on it. There is much more to the Carney case as to why the Supreme Court over turned the Ca Court IF you read further, but you appear to be very selective in sharing only SOME of the information, which is not to the benifit of the members of this web-site. I don't think it's intentional though. Heck, even w/a degree in Criminal Justice and almost 13yrs on w/the SO, (nearly 10yrs of it in the driver seat of that kidny busting Sheriff's beam car!!), I sometimes get confused too.

As far at the Sheriff's Dept being on Federal Land....I spelled it out pretty clearly...its on that page-long post I wrote about "nothing"... AND, just because my pal Larry said he didn't know anything about a dog or check point, doesn't mean BLM and the Sheriff's Dept didn't plan it together. I'm not saying Larry would lie, but Chief Ranger Pat Chassie(another pal) doesn't need to clear anything with Larry before deciding something. You're smarter than that Bob. If not, I got some ocean front property in AZ for ya!! You're painting a picture as if the Sheriff's Dept just rolled up like they owned the area, screamed suprised, and started going to town on peeps. Getting a dog and setting up a detail like that takes multi-agency involvment and planning. The BLM and SBCSD have a very good working relationship. I assure you, it was not a suprise or unplanned.

As far as your topic title for this post...hey, to each their own...we're all entitled to our opinions. I just want to clear up some of the mis leading information you're throwing out there, my future friend .....I tried to keep it all above the belt for ya...

Edited November 3, 2012 by Jmanx

[barefoot bob]

ok "..."Such roadblocks must have a specific primary purpose, such as keeping roadways safe from impaired drivers, or enforcing border security."

that specifcly apply to drunk driving check points and boarder patrol crossings. i assumed that would be a forgon conclusion. might i add you dont need a dog for a drunk driving check point. boarder patrol crossings are an entirely different animal.

lol dogs cant conduct field sobriety tests

so there little ambush pre meditated or no was a violation of the 4th amendment, throw up a viel saying "it was a drunk driving check point" a judge will see right through that, that is just perverting the law. it was a straight up fishing trip as you said "Police may not conduct roadblocks "whose primary purpose is to detect evidence of ordinary criminal wrongdoing"

your second point

if your going down dumont rd. the obvious intention is to camp in your domicile. it COULD be argued that since you have entered blm land with no way to go but to camp. and your already off the public motorway. you could argue your interntion is to park as a domicile . california supreme court overturned that finding citing a vehicle like that is used for living in with a secondary use of travel " in other words somthing you wouldnt drive around town for erands, so you would expect your right of privacy to be that of a home . than in your car. you eluded that i excluded somthing it clearly saise california supreme court overturned the original decision

your 3rd point i would conceed , however if you look back at that post of my findings. you will see i wrote that there is a rub to this that i could not find any info on and i left it with a question mark. "(however there maybe a backwards rub there, that being, they opened it to the public . ) so does that mean they can cruise the parking lot ??? i dont know"

i too found it very strange that the blm would claim "no knowledge" of the action. and to tell terry such a thing. but there is some variables however,

no one has determined " whos drug dog it was " or why it was there. at face value it appears to be an attempt to get money out of middle class folks . there is no plausable reason to do such a thing in the middle of no where that is only frequented my middle class people. the likelyhood of dumont being any kind of hub for elicit drug activity seems very weak. and either way you slice it we the taxpayers pay for that. and it is certainly a waste. and a blatant violation of peoples 4th amendment rights. claiming dui checkpoint would not get past a jury. i would be shocked if it made it through discovery.

i read 6 different pages to come up with the info i found ( at your prodding i might add) to copy paste all of it ?? cmon your smarter than that.................................................. there was no intent to leave out any info to further my opinion

Edited November 3, 2012 by barefoot bob

[cmondwn]

• 
  This is a very interesting thread….Controversy! I believe they are doing this for our SAFETY and to make a buck (which whatever, at least my tax dollars are going somewhere)! For the past few years people have complained about the economy going downhill & NO jobs – well….. Someone is finally putting our men & women to work. Hopefully this will open more careers for other men & women. I like to see my tax dollars being used for my own safety. I also noticed the Sheriffs had a laptop to possible check subjects for wants and warrants – How do I get that gig? I would sit on the back of a truck and status check possible wanted people. Then when I was done working, climb into my dune home or chill by the camp fire – Not a bad day at the office J
  Just info: If I am not mistaken most agencies that will be entering another agencies territory, they will notify each other; so I found it to be B.S. that BLM did not know the Sheriffs would be there. *just my opinion*
  Do I agree with searches at the gate? … I am on the fence with this; if the Officers and K9 can get rid of the drugs before someone gets “high” and causes a tragic accident – then GREAT, I am all for it. Now, if they wanted to randomly search my dune home or vehicle for no reason; I would probably have an attitude and request a “search warrant” (a search warrant normally has to be approved by a judge and that takes times). It seems very hypocritical of me because I try to play by the rules (bend them for little things – like a glass bottle), but then again; Get rid of the scum bags that ruin it for people like myself that go for a goodtime. Knowing your rights as a civilian will help protect you and the officer that is doing his job.
  On another note: I found it very entertaining watching from above the Ranger Station. Who drives a motorcycle to the dunes? (I’m still shaking my head and laughing) Yep, he was pulled over and checked. LOL “He just might have been the drug dealer “(sarcastic) Oh’ yea and the little Smart Car that was the size of my RZR J
  

[CaptNkllm]

WOW that is some small print lol... can someone add water so it can grow or in this case A GROW LIGHT!!!! Muahahhaaa

Capt

• This is a very interesting thread….Controversy! I believe they are doing this for our SAFETY and to make a buck (which whatever, at least my tax dollars are going somewhere)! For the past few years people have complained about the economy going downhill & NO jobs – well….. Someone is finally putting our men & women to work. Hopefully this will open more careers for other men & women. I like to see my tax dollars being used for my own safety. I also noticed the Sheriffs had a laptop to possible check subjects for wants and warrants – How do I get that gig? I would sit on the back of a truck and status check possible wanted people. Then when I was done working, climb into my dune home or chill by the camp fire – Not a bad day at the office J
  Just info: If I am not mistaken most agencies that will be entering another agencies territory, they will notify each other; so I found it to be B.S. that BLM did not know the Sheriffs would be there. *just my opinion*
  Do I agree with searches at the gate? … I am on the fence with this; if the Officers and K9 can get rid of the drugs before someone gets “high” and causes a tragic accident – then GREAT, I am all for it. Now, if they wanted to randomly search my dune home or vehicle for no reason; I would probably have an attitude and request a “search warrant” (a search warrant normally has to be approved by a judge and that takes times). It seems very hypocritical of me because I try to play by the rules (bend them for little things – like a glass bottle), but then again; Get rid of the scum bags that ruin it for people like myself that go for a goodtime. Knowing your rights as a civilian will help protect you and the officer that is doing his job.
  On another note: I found it very entertaining watching from above the Ranger Station. Who drives a motorcycle to the dunes? (I’m still shaking my head and laughing) Yep, he was pulled over and checked. LOL “He just might have been the drug dealer “(sarcastic) Oh’ yea and the little Smart Car that was the size of my RZR J
  

[cmondwn]

:saywha: !!! too funny !!!

[barefoot bob]

here is a scenario,

john and joann are from nevada. Every year they go to Dumont for a holiday. john is an average middle class guy who works his tail off all week. Joann works part time and takes care of their kids. they are doing the last minute hurry up and pack to leave routine. cause as with most folks work doesnt allow time for liesury well thought out packing.

as most folks do john owns a firearm. its already packed from a previous trip so its an after thought. their is to many other things to worry about. Its their if god forbid it was ever needed. so on to the task at hand, they get packed up and head on out the next morning.

they roll into dumont they stop to purchase a pass at the entrance. As he is pulling up he sees sheriffs officrs and a drug dog. he thinks odd but ok they will be watching for azzhats this weekend. a little less to worry about. as he stops they walk the dog by the trailer. dog gives an indication he has found somthing. john is approached told of the situation. john thinks i have nothing to hide go ahead ( thinking if it gets me through the gate quicker do your bussines.)

so the sheriffs conduct the search, they find johns firearm it is a common weapon ( lets say an m4 carbine) the sheriffs retrieve it and inform john that in california you cant carry a weapon concealed. or have a loaded clip in it, to make matters worse it has a 20 round clip in it, further it had no bullet button.

meanwhile joann listening to this mess develop begins to get a headache. she reaches in her purse and pulls out a prescriptiom bottle and takes an 800mg ibuprofin (asprin) of course upon seeing a prescription bottle. the officer standing with them observes and see's the name on the prescription as john duner not joann. joannn is now in trouble as taking some elses medication is against the law.

now john and joann are going jail. 2 trailers away billy flatbiller is watching this go on. of course since they are busy with john and joann they have to let the first few vehicles go by. including billy flatbiller who of course has a jar of extasy for the weekend rave party. ( i added this last paragraph for dramatic effect )

anywase that scenario is very simple and minus the checkpoint probably happens quite a bit. but never goes noticed. and in one unthinking moment could ruin your life. this not what the law was ever intended for. which is why we have our rights. that doesnt make the leos EVIL. they are trained in a specific way to deal with liars and pick out craftey people. that is there job.

Edited November 3, 2012 by barefoot bob

[bp-guy]

Hey Bob-

I can vision you at your keyboard like this- Cup of coffee, cigarette in one hand. pecking at the keyboard, talking to yourself about this outloud. Buttcrack exposed and of course.... BAREFOOT!

How far off am I?

P.S. your one black mofo!

[turbo_bruce]

i think that dog was out there to make a point. the point being even if you have a med card for med pot it is not legal on fed land. i know 3 pep that got a ticket with a card in hand. (and i dont smoke) and buy the way i think it is way safer for the cops to be out there then were the real crime is that there unable to stop

Edited November 3, 2012 by turbo_bruce

[CaptNkllm]

Well I can attest to the fire arm thing @ Dumont... I am clean, Drug free and never been arrested. I was pullled over at comp on New Years night as someone with me had a can of beer they was showing out of the back window (didnt realize anyone had booze with us... should have been in an ice chest)..Yes you got it... pulled over ppl in the back seat taken out and questioned 1 hr later they get me out and As I am getting out of my truck I look down and there is my Colt 45 sitting in the door panel ( i had been broken into at my house and all my guns had been stolen.. I just got them back 1 week before) I thought OOPS ... I told the cop it was there and he took me to the rear of the truck and his partner pulled the gun out of my truck... As you guessed it had a clip in it as that is how I travel. He questioned me for a few minutes and told me how illegal it was to have it and he can take me to jail right now and I told him I understand and if that is what he needs to do thats fine. He also explained that the girl that had the drink is my responsibility and that I can get a ticket for her also... I explained I understood and that if he had to do that I was ok with that also..I explained why I carry a gun in Nevada and that I understood it was illegal in Cali to carry it that was and I proceeded to explain how I forgot I had it (it had been in police lock up for 2 years).

He followed me back to my trailer and looked at my CCW and my 6 blue cards.... Gave me a verbal warning and was told to be careful and to keep them in the trailer as the police could not enter my trailer with out a warrant...

Sheriff's were real rude at first but after they warmed up to me after the 2 hr ordeal they were actually nice... told me to have a good night and be safe and they left....

I didnt feel my rights were violated but the situation could have sank me with bills and court for sure.. so there is some GOOD LEOS out there and if they are respected will be cool.. Now that cant be Guaranteed lol

But again I am clean as clean gets and a little stop regardless of the reason could have ruined me for a while

Capt

[CaptNkllm]

Hey Bob-

I can vision you at your keyboard like this- Cup of coffee, cigarette in one hand. pecking at the keyboard, talking to yourself about this outloud. Buttcrack exposed and of course.... BAREFOOT!

How far off am I?

P.S. your one black mofo!

HAaaaaa... thats How I see it... as he murmurs under his breath lol

i think that dog was out there to make a point. the point being even if you have a med card for med pot it is not legal on fed land. i know 3 pep that got a ticket with a card in hand. (and i dont smoke) and buy the way i think it is way safer for the cops to be out there then were the real crime is that there unable to stop

Chase the small stufff and hope the big stuff goes away.. OOooo K

Capt

[turbo_bruce]

it was my understanding you can have a fire arm with you out in the desert and on fed land but not consealed.

[CaptNkllm]

Mine was with the clip in it so it is Loaded in their eyes

Capt

it was my understanding you can have a fire arm with you out in the desert and on fed land but not consealed.

[turbo_bruce]

y would that matter if you are out and about and u come on to a snake bear pig or cyot do you tell them to wait tel you load your gun ??? lol i dont think it matters if it is loaded or not out in the desert in the city i think its a no go now new laws but in the desert??? dos any one know the what the law is

[CaptNkllm]

Its California and in their eyes .. ITS LOADED...anywhere in cali the gun has to be seperate from the clip and so many movements away from the gun.. usually if you have the gun in the ab.. the clip needs to be in the trunk.. LAW!!! Sucks but true

Capt

y would that matter if you are out and about and u come on to a snake bear pig or cyot do you tell them to wait tel you load your gun ??? lol i dont think it matters if it is loaded or not out in the desert in the city i think its a no go now new laws but in the desert??? dos any one know the what the law is

[aceisback]

Y'all do understand that a "clip" is what you load rounds into a "magazine" with, and a "magazine" is what's inserted into a weapon in order for it's rounds to be fired right?

Man I hate when Nugs, Thugs, and Gangsta's can't keep the two straight. Educated white folk ought not have that problem.

[CaptNkllm]

yadda yadda

Capt

Edited November 3, 2012 by CaptNkllm

[CaptNkllm]

so I use a paper clip to feed bullets into a Vogue Magazine? huh? Semantics lol... Red neck here so no gangsta ..Holmes

Capt

Y'all do understand that a "clip" is what you load rounds into a "magazine" with, and a "magazine" is what's inserted into a weapon in order for it's rounds to be fired right?

Man I hate when Nugs, Thugs, and Gangsta's can't keep the two straight. Educated white folk ought not have that problem.

[Jmanx]

Bob, your posts always give me a good chuckle! I think I'm finished trying to convince you water is wet and the sky is not falling. Like it, love it, or hate it...you don't have an "expectation of privacy" when it comes to the air scent around your car, truck, MoHo or anything eles you're are driving/towing. Meaning it is NOT a 4th Amendment Violation to walk a drug dog around your rig while you're in line waiting to buy a pass at Dumont, check point, border crossing, etc. This is straight from the mouth of one of our K9 officers with 20+ years of experience. Sorry if you aren't happy w/it, but it's law. Hech, I'm not happy w/our President for the past 4 years, but my wife and I cast our vote for a REAL change, so at least I feel like I'm trying to change something I'm not happy with.

Bob, I feel like I owe you an apoligy. Poor you started this post simply wanting to share and express your opinion with wasteful spending. I feel like I helped de-rail your initial topic and turn this into a 4th Amendment debate. For that, I am very sorry. I hope you're not offended.

Now, Bob, I have a little secret I want to share w/you and only you. I made a couple calls in the last 2 days. Come REAL close to the screen cuz I'm only gonna whisper it once. The Sheriff's Dept had nothing to do with the so called check point. It was BLM's dog and Rangers. This has been confirmed w/more than one person in the L/E community. There was actually talk about OUR handlers helping out, but they decided it was a waste of time/money...LOL!!....Now, I still admire Terry for checking w/Larry. But we need to consider the source. Larry is a good guy, I've worked w/him for several years. BUT, he is in charge of vendors and permits (and some others things)...NOT law enforcement activities. Larry did not intentionally give false information. NOW, you made some pretty dicey comments about the Sheriff's Dept pretty much trespassing on Fed land, violating EVERYONES 4th Amendment rights. Some advice my future friend...., do a little research of your own before you start bumping gums about something you know VERY little about, and spitting out something THAT bold. Those are some very serious alegations. I try extremely hard to be a positive influence on people (even crooks), and when the Dept gets a black eye, I automatically get one too. I guess it comes w/the job.

With that said, I'm looking forward to shreading up some dunes w/you in the near future. Maybe even throwning a few back around a campfire....I'm sure you and I could have some pretty interesting conversations.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Jmanx

[ItsWeeks]

so the sheriffs conduct the search, they find johns firearm it is a common weapon ( lets say an m4 carbine) the sheriffs retrieve it and inform john that in california you cant carry a weapon concealed. or have a loaded clip in it, to make matters worse it has a 20 round clip in it, further it had no bullet button.

Um, if an m4 is a common weapon in a trailer at the dunes I'm gonna start bringing all my tactical gear. Because my pistol just isn't gonna cut it. I would like to think that any gun owner knows the where abouts of their firearms at all times especially their long guns.