vegas style Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 i like you came on and straightened some things out jake thank you. i still would like to know what statistics (arrests, tickets, accidents ) warranted the crack down? i cant remember a post about anything like that. its a slippery slope and this could be the start... how many people bring guns? i for one need to put a cali legal 10 round clip to be compliant (have i forgot or grabbed the wrong one... yes) how about your favorite beer (the one in the Glass bottles) or your atc 70 that they cant find a vin and decide to impound it. you might not think you have anything to hide tell they start digging thru your stuff. and when stuff like this start happening you will think back to the first bit of easy harassment (its for your safety)... big brother comes to dumont! lets try to not let it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanx Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure what sparked the "crack down". But I agree, lets not have Big Brother get carried away. I think all GOOD peeps should have guns. Almost every truck/trailer out at Dumont should have a gun, it's our right!! But if you're a felon, then sorry, that right has been taken away. And yep, I miss my MGD in a bottle around the fire. But I don't feel like dealing w/the BLM Rangers sneaking around on foot catching my w/one. And I've had glass and nails in $400 paddles...it sucks!! The 70's....well thats BS if it gets taken away in my opinion. But its a good idea to have some sort of "owner applied number" on it if it is completely home built. How else would you expect to L/E to find it if it gets stolen. I personally never took one from anyone and I hope it hasn't happened to any of you. It's spirit of the law vs letter of the law. Look, I don't mean to rattle any cages. I believe in education and certainly want the dunes to stay open for my kids. The dunes are my life!! I can't speak for the cop'rs that treated any of you unfairly at the gate. I wasn't there. But if it happened, DO something about it! KNOW your rights and file complaints. It's way better than just venting on this website. I can assure you, I will never treat anyone unfairly. I will work a 30hr shift to put the spouse in jail that beat up their other half while at the dunes because they were high as crap, comb the dunes for you kids stolen quad, and give the shirt off my back cuz you just rolled your buggy in the middle of the freezing night and the medical personel aren't there yet (those guys rock!!). And Bob, I know you don't need a shirt so I'll give you my sandals. Soon, Capt, Bob and me will be BFF's for life... Edited October 30, 2012 by Jmanx 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 They checked mostly the flat bed trailers loaded with bikes coming in, All day Friday we only saw them check one enclosed trailer, they handcuffed those guys for over an hour as they searched the trailer and wrote tickets for the 2 guys. Each one got maybe 5 tickets each and each from a different cop. The cops also had their clips boards checking VIN #'s as the dog was walking around the truck & trailer. VERY interesting watching from above them with the binoculars ! Hi Jill and Charlie, Sounds like tou enjoyed the spot of the Clif. I was unable to go out for Haloween because of Rail Parts problems. Sorry I missed you guys. Several more folks that I know are getting the same idea. See what;s going on at the fee station! Off subject but wanted to say HI! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptNkllm Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I can Honestly say... I have never been treated wrong by any LEO in Dumont or Glamis.. Idont have issue with you Either Jmanx directly... Yes I have a camp usually full of booze and you are more than welcome to it if you are thirsty.. Believe it or not we might end up good friends thats how I picked up Bob (from under his Motor home lol).. Look, I don't mean to rattle any cages. I believe in education and certainly want the dunes to stay open for my kids. The dunes are my life!! I can't speak for the cop'rs that treated any of you unfairly at the gate. I wasn't there. But if it happened, DO something about it! KNOW your rights and file complaints. It's way better than just venting on this website. I can assure you, I will never treat anyone unfairly. I will work a 30hr shift to put the spouse in jail that beat up their other half while at the dunes because they were high as crap, comb the dunes for you kids stolen quad, and give the shirt off my back cuz you just rolled your buggy in the middle of the freezing night and the medical personel aren't there yet (those guys rock!!). And Bob, I know you don't need a shirt so I'll give you my sandals. Soon, Capt, Bob and me will be BFF's for life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanx Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 I can Honestly say... I have never been treated wrong by any LEO in Dumont or Glamis.. Idont have issue with you Either Jmanx directly... Yes I have a camp usually full of booze and you are more than welcome to it if you are thirsty.. Believe it or not we might end up good friends thats how I picked up Bob (from under his Motor home lol).. I appreciate the invite sir! Can't wait for Thanks Giving!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptNkllm Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Cant miss me Capt I appreciate the invite sir! Can't wait for Thanks Giving!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svengoolie Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 There is a trade off being discussed here. The balance of liberty and security. How much government intrusion into our lives will we accept in the name of security? Political philosopher Thomas Hobbes pointed out 400 years ago, when humans fear for their security, they give up liberty. It's quite easy to make people feel afraid. Remember terror alerts during the last administration? Drug sniffing dogs are right 20 to 30% of the time and can be "set off" with only a small command by the officer. The officers beliefs often influence the dogs studies show. Don't give up my rights for me. They were hard fought with much blood spilled. I will keep my liberty and lock up my stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp-guy Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Let me chime in on the dog aspect here. The 20%-30% time they are wrong?????.... How do you know they were wrong? There is a positive alert where the dog shows by either a passive (sitting) posture or an active (scratching/barking) posture. When the dog "alerts" all bets are off as far as your right to not being searched. Now the "false alert" is not really false. It is called a " non-productive alert" Let me explain. How do you know there werent drugs in there at any time prior? The dog is trained on the odors of controlled substances. The dog is trying to find the odor so he can receive his toy from the handler. Its a big game to the dogs of find the toy. The nose of a dog is very sensitve and can locate a very small amount of drugs but turn around a miss a ton of weed simply because he/she was never exposed to that quantity before and was overloaded by the scent. But a good dog that has "alerted" to big and small quantities is a great assett. I am not sure if all dogs are certified on "Oxy" just yet but they need to be. If you have a prescription then your ok, but if you have 3000 tablets then you either have a bad neck ache or your up to no good. I see an issue with the mass presence of law at any given time. But the dog is always welcome in my eyes. If your breaking the law then don't go where your going to be caught. I got popped for fireworks out there a few years ago. I didn't badge my way out of it. I simply told the officer who I was as I got my wallet and he confiscated my fireworks and let me off with a warning. I would have taken the ticket if issued as I was knowingly breaking the law. So in short, I would rather have the police presence there and deal with a longer wait time then not have them there if needed. If your know your rights and they ask you to search and you say no! Then unless the dog "alerts" they have no authority to hold you any longer than what their scope allows them to do. And by them stopping you, you are technically under arrest. But allowed until they complete their initial line of questioning. Ok, off my soap box......NEXT 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svengoolie Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Let me chime in on the dog aspect here. The 20%-30% time they are wrong?????.... How do you know they were wrong? There is a positive alert where the dog shows by either a passive (sitting) posture or an active (scratching/barking) posture. When the dog "alerts" all bets are off as far as your right to not being searched. Now the "false alert" is not really false. It is called a " non-productive alert" Let me explain. How do you know there werent drugs in there at any time prior? The dog is trained on the odors of controlled substances. The dog is trying to find the odor so he can receive his toy from the handler. Its a big game to the dogs of find the toy. The nose of a dog is very sensitve and can locate a very small amount of drugs but turn around a miss a ton of weed simply because he/she was never exposed to that quantity before and was overloaded by the scent. But a good dog that has "alerted" to big and small quantities is a great assett. I am not sure if all dogs are certified on "Oxy" just yet but they need to be. If you have a prescription then your ok, but if you have 3000 tablets then you either have a bad neck ache or your up to no good. I see an issue with the mass presence of law at any given time. But the dog is always welcome in my eyes. If your breaking the law then don't go where your going to be caught. I got popped for fireworks out there a few years ago. I didn't badge my way out of it. I simply told the officer who I was as I got my wallet and he confiscated my fireworks and let me off with a warning. I would have taken the ticket if issued as I was knowingly breaking the law. So in short, I would rather have the police presence there and deal with a longer wait time then not have them there if needed. If your know your rights and they ask you to search and you say no! Then unless the dog "alerts" they have no authority to hold you any longer than what their scope allows them to do. And by them stopping you, you are technically under arrest. But allowed until they complete their initial line of questioning. Ok, off my soap box......NEXT In Indiana in 1979, 26 trained dogs sniffed 2,780 junior high and high school students, running their noses along the kids’ legs. They identified 50 students as drug carriers. The kids were strip-searched or told to empty their pockets. Thirty-five of the 50 students were clean. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3078300/ I don't do drugs- never have. I still have a serious problem with the "I have nothing to hide" idea. I have never had a negative run in with law enforcement before. In the few run ins I have had, I was respectful as were they and I went on my way. (I need to drive slower!) They have a tough job and I appreciate them and what they do. However, I do not want to run the gauntlet of trained dogs and questioning while taking my family to the dunes. I guess I'll step off the soap box now too! We had such a good time this weekend, the kids (teenagers) were in bed by 7:30 last night! Completely spent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp-guy Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Our work dogs can't "sniff" people. That is our policy. Now back in 1979 things were alot different. I am not going to argue that a handler can "cue" a dog into an alert. That has and alway will be a factor. But seeing a positive alert and finding 50lbs of pot from over 75 yards away when he got into odor is pretty darn cool. Now if I told you close your eyes and I will throw a ball at you, but you don't know when. Then I never throw it. You will flinch in hesitation waiting for the ball to come. Why? Because you have information about something that is about to happen and your just waiting for it to occur. Same thing with those tests. They were told that there was a substance to be found and this influenced ( comprimised ) the search. We are taught to assume there is something to "find" in every search and when we come up empty then fine. Reward the dog for the work performed them move on to the next search and hopefully find the toy. It's never going to be rock solid, why? It's a dog/man relationship here... Until people do the right thing in life there will always be a need for law enforcement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svengoolie Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Our work dogs can't "sniff" people. That is our policy. Now back in 1979 things were alot different. I am not going to argue that a handler can "cue" a dog into an alert. That has and alway will be a factor. But seeing a positive alert and finding 50lbs of pot from over 75 yards away when he got into odor is pretty darn cool. . It's never going to be rock solid, why? It's a dog/man relationship here... Until people do the right thing in life there will always be a need for law enforcement. How they work is amazing. I think law enforcement jobs will be secure for quite some time. I actually like the rangers and deputies at Dumont. They do an excellent job and have always been good to my family and friends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp-guy Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Nice debating with you, No harm no foul, just opinions/facts! Next time I am out there, I have a beer for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svengoolie Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Nice debating with you, No harm no foul, just opinions/facts! Next time I am out there, I have a beer for you! You got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Live your life in the shoes of an L.E.O. Understand the politics of government agencys. Think about the fact that everyone has an opinion and there like As*holes. every one has one. It's like the military, they are taking orders from someone higher. Continue with the thread, it is interesting to hear what people think in spite if it's a fact or that is or a personal feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam @ GTP Off Road Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 some good info there... it's always interesting getting both sides of sorts. I just know i would be pissed waiting in line... that's why i have the pass as well, so I can just drive in. To me doing some patrols and watching for the people that look like idiots might be better served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot bob Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 it is funny how people will read things but never quite read or maybe never understand it all. jmanx you typed an entire page of pretty much nothing !! hiding behind "law" spirit or letter, is nothing better than a lame excuse. if there was a problem of this type at dumont blm would be aware we as a recreating community would be aware. which harkens back to one of my original questions which you obviously failed to read. what stats or incidents happened that sparked such a thing. further if your front rim is bent you dont rip the back of your car apart. you work at the front where the repairs are needed. i/e every ghetto in san berdoo county. so if there was no shootings robberies drug related crime going on in our ghettos then ya cmon out and harrass us. any way you slice this , its a waste of money. ( if you mind your pennies the dollars will take care of themselves) if your bankrupt you cut back. this is not cutting back. just so you know ynot (terry) is a friend i have a very high respect for. and we have had such discussions on other topics. and i most certainly expected terry to add in to this. because his point of view helps to make me think and question an issue i may be opposed to. further tim (bp guy ) he is a buddy i dune with and camp with. and is also a leo. i am not against law enforcement i appreciate and respect enforcement. and as i indicated in my first post this is not a question or challenge to officers in the field. this is there bosses. unforunately i had more to add but alas i have to go to work. i will finish this tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineurbiz Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I am fine with the LEO's being there, just as long as they don't show up with an attitude towards everyone. I think we are very lucky with the regular LEO's that we have at Dumont, they are a good group. Glamis is another story though, to many of them come up to you with a power trip attitude (not saying all of them). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~JILL~ Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Hi Jill and Charlie, Sounds like tou enjoyed the spot of the Clif. I was unable to go out for Haloween because of Rail Parts problems. Sorry I missed you guys. Several more folks that I know are getting the same idea. See what;s going on at the fee station! Off subject but wanted to say HI! Hi Ya Pat !! Yep we always park out there just a little farther down. Less traffic, less dust and lots of entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~JILL~ Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Me, I don't care. I have nothing to hide search away. If the money isn't spent there they will find another place to spend it so does it really matter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmanx Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 it is funny how people will read things but never quite read or maybe never understand it all. jmanx you typed an entire page of pretty much nothing !! hiding behind "law" spirit or letter, is nothing better than a lame excuse. if there was a problem of this type at dumont blm would be aware we as a recreating community would be aware. which harkens back to one of my original questions which you obviously failed to read. what stats or incidents happened that sparked such a thing. further if your front rim is bent you dont rip the back of your car apart. you work at the front where the repairs are needed. i/e every ghetto in san berdoo county. so if there was no shootings robberies drug related crime going on in our ghettos then ya cmon out and harrass us. any way you slice this , its a waste of money. ( if you mind your pennies the dollars will take care of themselves) if your bankrupt you cut back. this is not cutting back. just so you know ynot (terry) is a friend i have a very high respect for. and we have had such discussions on other topics. and i most certainly expected terry to add in to this. because his point of view helps to make me think and question an issue i may be opposed to. further tim (bp guy ) he is a buddy i dune with and camp with. and is also a leo. i am not against law enforcement i appreciate and respect enforcement. and as i indicated in my first post this is not a question or challenge to officers in the field. this is there bosses. unforunately i had more to add but alas i have to go to work. i will finish this tomorrow Bob, point made. Thank you...It's interesting (and fun) talking w/you. That's what this is all about, right?? Voicing our concerns, trying to preserve our dunes (and rights!). White flag!! White flag!! It's my goal NOW to be on your extensive "friends" list. I know it's an up hill battle, but I'm willing to fight for it! Sooo, you wanna friend request me? Or should I friend request you? Doesn't matter, what ever, ok, you decide, ok, we can talk about it later, ok, alright, ok .....By the way, I like you car!! Gotta love GREEN!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot bob Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Bob, point made. Thank you...It's interesting (and fun) talking w/you. That's what this is all about, right?? Voicing our concerns, trying to preserve our dunes (and rights!). White flag!! White flag!! It's my goal NOW to be on your extensive "friends" list. I know it's an up hill battle, but I'm willing to fight for it! Sooo, you wanna friend request me? Or should I friend request you? Doesn't matter, what ever, ok, you decide, ok, we can talk about it later, ok, alright, ok .....By the way, I like you car!! Gotta love GREEN!!!!!! it is by no means an up hill battle, i am a very affable person. i must say attacking my iq was hitting below the belt. but as most debates i have been known to do it a time or 2. but ............... this debate is by no means over. you forced me to spend 2 hours researching . and i am most definately going to post it up. i worked to hard to find it . and you made me think about it all day !!! i love a good debate !! so here it goes... 1st off in the 4th amendment there is an exclusion to checkpoints. and that is "City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000), the Supreme Court ruled that discretionary checkpoints or general crime-fighting checkpoints are not allowed." 2nd california vs carney: " The California Court of Appeal affirmed, finding that the automobile exception applied to a motor home. The California Supreme Court reversed, holding that there is a greater expectation of privacy in a motor home when also used for living quarters, so the automobile exception did not apply. in other words no warrent no looky/ although it is a moot point because san bernardino county sheriffs violated every one of those peoples 4th amendment rights. 3rd we move to jurisdiction of federal lands: the public domain is under a proprietory jurisdiction. meaning the us government is basically a private land owner. the blm is there manager ( self run so to speak ) so it is subject to laws of private property. and a phone call made by ynot confirms that county sheriffs were not requested by blm. so what were they doing there ??? (however there maybe a backwards rub there, that being, they opened it to the public . ) so does that mean they can cruise the parking lot ??? i dont know. again yet another moot point because those peoples 4th amendment rights were violated. currently there is legislation in the supreme court to curtail drug dogs. because as i understand police have used them to enter houses under warrentless searches. but that fight still rages on. in conclusion we have sbcs on private property. without permission. setting up a general crime fighting stop, against the 4th amendment. and writing tickets illeagly and performing warrentless searches. might i add in the middle of no where. and as a general rule frequented by lower to upper middle class families. near no boarders state or federal. I can only conclude they were there to scrounge money for a bankrupt mismanaged county. who had no bussines squandering our tax money. or again it could be that was a federal drug dog that came from that explorer. in that case its a waste of our federal taxes and or land use fees. and still a violation of peoples 4th amendment rights whew !! ps. i stand by my 1st post and title topic what a waste !! and yes i know that voicing my opinion as such makes me look anti law enforcement. or that i support criminals niether could be further from the truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAND~~SNAKE Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I like pizza!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sandman Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 (edited) Just a point of clarification...it was the City of San Bernardino that filed for bankruptcy, not the County of San Bernardino (which the Sheriff's Department represents). The city and county are two completely different animals and jurisdictions. Edited November 1, 2012 by Mr. Sandman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakster884 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Everyone has an opinion. Cool! No one is right or wrong Just Saying!@ Lets Dune :MBdance: :MBdance: :MBdance: :MBdance: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxysandchick Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 If you are that passionate about the issue then why aren't you taking the time to address your concerns with the appropriate agency instead of ranting on a forum which isn't going to achieve anything...you don't like something then do something about it or at least make an appropriate effort! You're wasting your time and effort posting it here, this isn't going to change anything...they might decide to be out there on every big weekend, then what are you going to do?? How far you willing to push them out there to stand up for what you think is right and wrong?? (This isn't directed to anyone specific ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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