President's Day Trip Reports

[dunefreak]

Banshee Boys? Never heard of them. I remember Banshee Wars and that was a group from Planet Sand.

I'm sorry but I'm with Bruce on this one. Alot of people made plans and arrangements for a certain date and time...President's weekend. Whether it was to run the dunes or to line up and run Banshee Hill all freakin day with their buddies. What's the difference? Of course they made arrangements. I never saw a flyer. It was never advertised. Was money collected? Was there a roster sheet? No. Just because they are racing each other doesn't mean it's illegal. Everyone does that at the dunes. Are they going to start ticketing the sandcars that race all day at comp hill? Their idea of an ORGANIZED event is getting ridiculous. The Barstow BLM is going to see less and less people at Dumont in the upcoming years if they continue the way they are. Look how many vendors and annual events they have already run out of there.

[rocket]

Wasn't going to say anything, but - - - - . I think Bruce has a point here! Thinking back to the BLM meeting Tuesday. Nobody really wanted to hear the law enforcement concerns I tried to bring up. Sorry Terry, but what is the reputation the Banshee Boys have? I haven't heard it, but then again I pilot a rail. If I and six or seven Sandrockets line up at Banshee or comp, is that an "unauthorized" gathering? Please Terry, I'm not attacking you or BLM, just asking. Did the Banshee Boys advertise the event? Was it officiated? Prizes? Or was it just a "cherry patch" to pick?

Being in law enforcement for many years I wonder, what about probable cause? Ok, I realize that LE can randomly walk about and the adage that "the eyes cannot trespass". They can look at the VINS and off-road stickers and develop their PC. If PC is found they can further their investigation, but - - - - why are they targeting this specific group? I don't know, I wasn't there. Maybe they went over to comp hill and did the same thing, I don't know. Has there been a problem at Dumont with non-registered OHV's and quads?

This was something I wanted to explore at the BLM meeting, but - - - - as the facilitator (not you Terry) said, "we need to move along with the agenda". Law enforcement at Dumont is a necessary evil. The users of the dunes can't just think they can come to the dunes and do what they please! There are rules, laws and regulations to protect all of the users. However, there need to be guide lines for LE and a common sense approach. I've never seen the two BLM Rangers in the Neil Rideout photo. Where did they come from?? I've heard some not so flattering statements about Las Vegas BLM personnel and their attitude about the dunes.

OK, I'm about done with this rant. One of the concerns I wanted to bring up at the BLM meeting was inter-relations and contacts between law enforcement and the users of the dunes. This might have been a good example of the friction between the two. I strongly believe a meeting between BLM, SBSD and other law enforcement agencies needs to take place and we can air our concerns, differences and thoughts to make our dunning experience more positive! In order to do this, the users of Dumont Dunes need to step up to the plate and participate!!

[rocket]

Terry and Pete. My fingers don't type fast enough and I read your responses right after I hit the post icon on my post. Terry, thanks for your input on the naming of the Banshee Boys. I still stand by my concerns about contacts between law enforcement and the users of Dumont Dunes. We need to get together and air our differences!

[desertrider71]

Pete, will this effect the get together of the 70 owners that you guys have been kicking around ?

[dunefreak]

Pete, will this effect the get together of the 70 owners that you guys have been kicking around ?

No, because it's not gonna happen. It never generated any interest so I gave up doing that trip with the crew. Besides, that was just going to be a regular dune trip where the group camped together and brought their ATC's, just like every dune trip for me. No races, no schedules, nothing promoted, no $ involved, etc. Just duning and hanging in camp.

[Adam @ GTP Off Road]

personally i understand going to the area where people are gathered to take a look around. This is for safety of all. Part of their job is to look for registration, that just they way it is. if people are going to be racing in bigger groups, or as bigger groups then having a leo or 2 in that area makes sense incase of an accident. People want them there when their is one, well they have to come from somewhere.

what does constitute a "gathering?" if they are all just meeting up to race as friends that seems like it would be legal and perfectly fine. For the drag racers they need many others to be able to have any fun, so they need a "group."

The LEOs should also monitor a group like that out in the dunes to help control trash and things like that.

Even in the short time i have been going out there, i have noticed a drop in vendors. that is too bad, but from what i have seen the fees and costs are INSANELY high and completely unreasonable.

[ynot]

Ok, maybe I misstated my point. I don't know the actual reason they were called Banshee boys but i had an indication that it was from the Planet Sand races that caused all the issues. I don't know and it was not expressed at the meeting why they were looked so closely at but I am guessing that something triggered the LEO's actions. I don't think they would pick on just a certain kind of OHV. They never have to my knowledge and having been a Banshee rider for 12 years I never ad an issue with them.

I agree that the new rules on permits and insurance has decreased the amount of events at Dumont, that's not the Dumont users fault, it is the off road racers that did not prepare properly for the race that killed several people in California. Unfortunately we are all paying the price for that tragic mistake. As usual the screw ups of the few affect the masses.

The vendors are going away due to two reasons. First it's a continuing decline in the economy, Diesel at $4.10 keeps people at home period. It's one of the reasons I am not going out this weekend where a couple of years ago I would have said to hell with the other issues I have going on and just loaded up and gone. Now with it costing $225.00 in diesel fuel it effects my decisions to go. I would imagine I am no different than others.

2nd. Less people= less cash to spend at the vendors. I disagree with the BLM fee set up on vendors as they are charged per day even if they do not sell anything plus a % of their sales. I think that was ok a few years ago but needs to be updated to fit this economy. Maybe just a % of total sales and no daily fee. Also I don't see any vendors on here(DDR) complaining or even giving input as to why they are not coming out. They are not contacting me even though my name and cell # is all over the internet for friends of Dumont Dunes. I get calls all the time from users about issues they need info on. Never had a call from a vendor? I also think their variety such as t-shirts needs to be updated. Most users come out to Dumont and once you have seen the vendors wares you have pretty much seen them all. They need to change things up once in a while, new t-shirt designs etc.

To get back to the hill shooters I stand by my statement that this was a unorganized organized event. maybe set up on another web site that BLM watches and they recognized as previous problems. I don't know for sure but for some reason the BLM acted when we have all seen a lack of action at other "Gatherings" I don't know if we will ever know but I will see what I can find out as time goes on.

Hopefully at the clean up we can spend a little one on one time with BLM and their LEO chief ranger. I agree with Rocket that their are some things that need to be addressed and maybe we can get together and arrange it.

Lastly I know that usage of Dumont was down 35% from the year before, it is obviously down again this year, is it the LEO interaction or the economy? I am betting on the cash flow I mean how many trips a month did you lose from the NO MIDDLE CLASS tax cut? Me I lost about 3. It adds up in a hurry when you combine the taxes out of your paycheck and the cost of fuel. Think about it.

Terry

[turbo_bruce]

The term came from an organized race a few yrs. ago when the "Banshee Boys" had an event and left piles of trash and pallets with nails all over the place by Banshee hill. It has stuck to the group ever since. BLM is not stupid they know it was not an "official" event but it was planned and they made arrangements with each other to meet there at that date and time. They didn't do it officially so they could avoid the permit process and insurance requirements. As far as a Banshee running over a car what has that got to do with anything I said?

the race i think your talking about was called banshee wars and the guys that put that on no longer even go to dumont and yes in the past the guys that race at the hill have left a mess . and the only arrangements that are made are the same ones that every one that gos out there make. that there going to be there to have fun . all iam saying is maybe the blm needs to educate them selfs a bit more and know the facts on what is going on out there and the remark about the sand rail is that the drag quads out there are not killing any one and there is way more reckless people out there that the blm need to focos on . but i have noticed that after all the drag quads were done and left it was clean out at banshee hill but over at comp it is a mess all trashed out . maybe the banshee guys learned from the mistakes that were made in the past . but now the guys over at comp hill need to learn to pick up after them selfs and the drag quads do not go over there .

[jalper]

Good that no one got hurt. That's a bummer the cars all banged up, but I gotta say from another perspective, thanks for keeping the economy strong!

Thanks! I think we all agree we miss not having you out there, any chance you might come back when the market gets better, what about a daily shuttle bus of parts, we can call it in any have a pickup time,

[turbo_bruce]

hay terry what do you think the drag quads can do over at banshee hill that would help them from being harassed . and i dont know were the blm would have seen any thing that would suggest there was going to be a organized race out there i do go to the main sits that have to do with dumont and the drag quads . lets work together on making it better for ever one

[Adam @ GTP Off Road]

Mike and I, and a few others were talking about it seems the Holidays aren't as busy, and the off weekends are busier. That makes it harder for vendors i'm sure. I know we won't be looking to vend out there due to the costs involved. I called BLM to try and find out info but never even got a call back. After we heard about the costs we gave up for now.

The flag guy always seemed to be busy, but i can see how with all the costs, there was no money in it for him. He used to be out there all the time.

[1320]

Statistically Id bet the number of serious injuryies in the banshee hill area due to racing is astonishingly low. For several reasons.....its almost a closed course, By its very reputation, most people know its a racing area predominately used by quads. Its not a steep hill, it has decent vision in all directions, and its in pretty good shape most of the time. It doesnt get tore up much and change like comp. So WHY WOULD ANY RESONABLE PERSON go there to enforce rules? Revenue. No blm guy makes anything safer. Did they change the course? Move the racing lanes for safety? Did they do anything to make it safer? I personally have never seen them actually do anything of value. Anyone can make a call for an emt. Ive seen many more duners come to help then all the leos. They will stand around and wait very nicely though. So in the end, all they wanted to do, was make money and disperse a gathering of people that apparently has no reason to disperse? Good job.

If they were at all concerned about actual safety they would inform people coming in as to the rules, learn about statistics and safety issues and talk to people about that. They have all the numbers, all the injury information, yet they dont do anything with it? They write tickets for registration? Check going in and out that you paid for a pass. Never have they even tried to give anyone something of value when they stopped for those checks. I dont mind if they do, but that should be secondary to their intent not the actual intent.

The sad part is that, "they watch this site" but we need to go to a meeting to be put aside, and they wont take the ideas put forth here to do the job better, If they watch this site, why do we have to go to a meeting to not be heard? Its a lot better for for my bank account and the planet to just type it here. I d bet many people dont say anything because of the fear of being single out too.

[ynot]

Well Bruce, I would think first we have to find out why or if BLM Law Enforcement is Profiling. The only way to do that is to have a conversation with BLM management. I will have some time at the clean up and hope to do just that. I agree they may have been singled out and as to the trash at comp left from the previous nights activities all I can say is that we have and will continue to educate the users that their actions again threaten all of us. But we have found that the ones that care don't trash the place and the ones that don't give a sh*t do. Trying to change habits is a long tedious problem.

BLM cannot enforce littering until the litter is left on the ground and the perpetrator's leave it. This is hard to do on a holiday weekend with a large crowd and not enough LEO's to be safe. Again it comes down to education and peer pressure. I have tried telling people at the hill to please pick up after themselves and gotten the you have 2 heads stare back in return. So we go out in the AM along with a few others that care and pick up after them. Again all we can do is try but it does get frustrating as your holding a clean up and the idiots are sitting at the hill leaving their cans on the ground as you pick up others.

Bruce, I agree with you as to working together, it's what it's going to take to succeed.

Terry

Edited February 26, 2013 by ynot

[fishlips]

_{speaking of blm and the leo"s making Dumont safer. I was there all week and never saw anyone get pulled over for speeding around camps.}

[ynot]

Not that speeding is not a priority to the LEO's it's a matter of liability. On a busy weekend if they chase someone and they run then are involved in any kind of accident or the BLM causes or is involved in an accident then the BLM becomes liable. So since most of the azzhats that speed through camp AKA PITRACERS know they can outrun most of the vehicles BLM has at their disposal it becomes a matter of trying to catch them as they go into camp. Of course there is the whole misdemeanor ID issue but when they start threatening to tow the vehicle than usually the violator will come forward.

I am not saying this to encourage speeders through camp areas but am trying to explain why some things just are done a certain way.

On an off weekend there is not usually much LEO presence out there and that may be the reason you didn't see anyone getting stopped. However they could have been sitting in a position to see them do it and make there way over to their camp for a little investigation and a piece of pink paper.

Hope that answers your question.

Terry

[turbo_bruce]

wow did not think it is that easy to get away from a ranger in a razor rzr lol. no i think what is going on is called cherry picking and easier to get some one that dos not know hes braking the law and will stop to find out he forgot his reg or his flag fell off . i think it would be nice if we could find out what tickets get giving out the most and the try to educate people to make it safer out there.

[fishlips]

Thanks Terry. i was was talking about pres. Weekend.This is the prez. Trip report thread lol

We had an orange r1 rhino drag racing around camp and when i tried to wave him down to ask him to stop he roosted my camp. who h

[BigJon01]

I was there Prez weekend with a medium sized group, we were not hassled by anyone and we had all different types of rides, dirt bikes, quads, Rzr's, buggies... etc. Every single vehicle had a flag, a registration sticker etc. I wonder why we weren't picked on? Maybe if you are being singled out for not having a flag, or registration or speeding or being dangerous... you should just comply. Before I went to Dumont for my first time, I looked on this site, found the rules for the area and made sure I was able to fully comply. My group and I had a great time! Can't wait to go out again next month! Just my .02

[turbo_bruce]

wow this is a great sit . i have had vary little contact with the law at dumont but i have been seeing whats been going on out there . just because you have no run in dos not mean your doing it right no one is perfect . but when you do have contact with the law they need to be professional and polite that is port of the job there paid for and there has been more then a few that have forgot how to do there job right

[BigJon01]

I agree, there is always that rogue A-Hole. I just find that if you aren't looking for trouble... you usually won't find any. I used to fit a lot of the stereotypes for the guys who get harrassed, now I don't, by choice.

[CaddysNTattoos]

My weekend was short. Came in late Friday left Sunday, the rotax rhino did great, and the banshees did great too. My sons first time riding a quad he's 2 he like to mash the throttle, I need to govern it some more , IMO Blm is only good for a couple reasons out at dumont. Flight for life and the buggy with the stretcher. Other than that they are just a hassle. And yes if I wasn't in love with those dunes I would just amargosa or coral pink. They make enough they need to down size their footprint and let the