rzrbackxp Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Does anybody know if the San Bernardino County Sheriff ever restored BLM's peace officer powers after Sheriff Penrod revoked them back in the day? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 They are in the midst of working on a MOU (Method of Understanding) at this time but it isa not in place right now. This is government folks and nothing moves quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrbackxp Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Cool thx for the quick response! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19th_AT Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Interesting question...wonder where this is going.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrbackxp Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well last year had a few run-ins with some BLM agents who believed that they could detain people with out probable cause and also enforce California law as they saw fit. Doing research I discovered CA penal code section 830.8 which covers Federal Officers enforcing CA statutes. Section PC 830.8 (a) (4) states "This subdivison does not apply to federal officers of the Bureau of Land Management or the United States Forest Service. These officers have no authority to enforce California statues without the written consent of the sheriff or the chief of police in whose jurisdiction they are assigned." Since they do not have a written MOU with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's office they do not have the authority to be enfocing state law. This is just something to know next time they detain people with out cause or try to enforce a state law they know nothing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Well last year had a few run-ins with some BLM agents who believed that they could detain people with out probable cause and also enforce California law as they saw fit. Doing research I discovered CA penal code section 830.8 which covers Federal Officers enforcing CA statutes. Section PC 830.8 (a) (4) states "This subdivison does not apply to federal officers of the Bureau of Land Management or the United States Forest Service. These officers have no authority to enforce California statues without the written consent of the sheriff or the chief of police in whose jurisdiction they are assigned." Since they do not have a written MOU with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's office they do not have the authority to be enfocing state law. This is just something to know next time they detain people with out cause or try to enforce a state law they know nothing about. I am sure that if you want to have a discussion on this when or if you get pulled over it will not bode well for you. First they have plenty of federal laws to write you for and secondly why piss them off when maybe they were just going to have a conversation with you. A yes sir and no sir will do wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrbackxp Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) If they pull me over for violation of a state statue which they have in the past they are violating the law. We have tried yes sir before and they were still grade a a##holes. I still have constitutional rights and they still need reasonable suspicion or probable cause even to stop on a federal charge. I'm not just going to have my rights violated because they might get pissed. If they are running around without authority it may not bode well for them in a civil court of law. Please note I am not trying to be a jerk or a$$, but I do know what I am talking about and can give numerous examples. Edited November 24, 2013 by rzrbackxp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svengoolie Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Andy, if you read the rest of the statute, there are plenty of exemptions for them. Read here http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/830.8.html I didn't want to copy and paste the whole thing, it is too long and would ruin the thread but one of the exceptions are imminent danger to persons or property. I have always found challenging authority usually doesn't work well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrbackxp Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 Thanks for the advise Chris. I have read the whole section and it still states that they must have written permission from the Sheriff to enforce CA law. That is the main point. When they detained my dad walking through our camp to question him about green stickers on quads that were not even his they over stepped their bounds and had an illegal detention. There was not any imminet danger to any life or property. Or if they stop someone for not wearing a helmet in a side by side. That is a state law not federal law. It does not fall into an exemption. I am not saying to challange then with force, mence, or violance, however the court system works in many ways. In order to be a peace officer in CA one must go through hundreds of hours of training and be POST certified. The BLM officer who came in our camp from out of state (I won't say which one) was not certified. When I tried speaking with BLM at the Sand Show they were cocky and arrogant and could not tell me what section even authorized them to enforce state law. Then I asked what sections they were using to stop people on country roads and again silence. Why do you think they never make an arrest and always call the sheriff department for arresting people? They do not have the authority to do so for state law. It the same thing as being pulled over by a CA police officer in Neveda. CA peace officer powers do not apply in other states and visa versa. I know they are Federal agents and their federal powers are nation wide fine, but they should only be stopping or detaining people for federal violations. I just happen to know a thing or two about law, powers of arrest, reasonable suspicion, probable cause, ect. What they are doing is illegal. Does that mean I am going to get into a major pissing match with them? No, but I will have legal grounds to challenge them in court criminal or civil at a later time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Thanks for the advise Chris. I have read the whole section and it still states that they must have written permission from the Sheriff to enforce CA law. That is the main point. When they detained my dad walking through our camp to question him about green stickers on quads that were not even his they over stepped their bounds and had an illegal detention. There was not any imminet danger to any life or property. Or if they stop someone for not wearing a helmet in a side by side. That is a state law not federal law. It does not fall into an exemption. I am not saying to challange then with force, mence, or violance, however the court system works in many ways. In order to be a peace officer in CA one must go through hundreds of hours of training and be POST certified. The BLM officer who came in our camp from out of state (I won't say which one) was not certified. When I tried speaking with BLM at the Sand Show they were cocky and arrogant and could not tell me what section even authorized them to enforce state law. Then I asked what sections they were using to stop people on country roads and again silence. Why do you think they never make an arrest and always call the sheriff department for arresting people? They do not have the authority to do so for state law. It the same thing as being pulled over by a CA police officer in Neveda. CA peace officer powers do not apply in other states and visa versa. I know they are Federal agents and their federal powers are nation wide fine, but they should only be stopping or detaining people for federal violations. I just happen to know a thing or two about law, powers of arrest, reasonable suspicion, probable cause, ect. What they are doing is illegal. Does that mean I am going to get into a major pissing match with them? No, but I will have legal grounds to challenge them in court criminal or civil at a later time. And this is going to get you where is my question? We all know that unless they have a MOU in place they cannot write for Ca. violations. However I am sure that they can come up with a viable PC for the stop and then wait till the SO get there to write you a state/county ticket. You can protest in court all you want they get paid to go to court and stand there. I would much rather receive a Ca./county ticket then a federal ticket in most cases as the fines will at least go back to the county where I am playing in. BLM fines go into the general fund of the US Government and we all know where that goes. I have been going to Dumont since 1975 and knock on wood, I have never received a ticket nor been stopped. Have I done stupid things , well yes in my youth and pre grey hair I did a lot of dumb sh*t. Luckily I just never got caught. But there were a lot less of them back then. Moral to the story is if you look for a fight with the LEO's out there your in their world not yours, your going to lose. Relax, enjoy yourself while your there and obey the few rules that are in place and everybody will be happier for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrbackxp Posted November 24, 2013 Author Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) With all due respect Terry I've been going to Dumont since 86 and had not had any issues until last year. As a citizen of the United States of America I have certain rights protected by the constitution. One of those rights is the protection against unreasonable search and seizure. If BLM wants to enforce or stop and detain with out authority, they are violating our 4th amendment rights. If they can not write cites for state laws then they do not have power to stop and detain for such. If they do it to me it may get me a lot of money in a civil rights violation law suit. If they are stopping people and detaining them for the sheriff's to arrive they are creating a de-facto arrest. They do not have the power to due such for CA law and the arrest in turn is illegal. The point is BLM can not just stop you because. They must have the authority to do such. It's like an average citizen trying to pull you over. With out the authority it is unlawful.We were relaxed minding our own business when BLM entered our camp and detained people without reasonable suspicion or probable cause. We were not violating the rules or any laws. If you want to sit back and have your rights violated that's your decision. I am not going to just roll over like most Americans do and coward down to big brother. I did not start this post to start any problems. What I chose to do is on me and only me. Edited November 24, 2013 by rzrbackxp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtBikeGuy Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 With all due respect Terry I've been going to Dumont since 86 and had not had any issues until last year. As a citizen of the United States of America I have certain rights protected by the constitution. One of those rights is the protection against unreasonable search and seizure. If BLM wants to enforce or stop and detain with out authority, they are violating our 4th amendment rights. If they can not write cites for state laws then they do not have power to stop and detain for such. If they do it to me it may get me a lot of money in a civil rights violation law suit. If they are stopping people and detaining them for the sheriff's to arrive they are creating a de-facto arrest. They do not have the power to due such for CA law and the arrest in turn is illegal. The point is BLM can not just stop you because. They must have the authority to do such. It's like an average citizen trying to pull you over. With out the authority it is unlawful. We were relaxed minding our own business when BLM entered our camp and detained people without reasonable suspicion or probable cause. We were not violating the rules or any laws. If you want to sit back and have your rights violated that's your decision. I am not going to just roll over like most Americans do and coward down to big brother. I did not start this post to start any problems. What I chose to do is on me and only me. Andy I agree with you in regards to the BLM doing things that are questionable in order to complete what ever task they have in mind. However dealing with federal lands is different than state regulations. I used to be a police officer in Nevada and if we were in pursuit or thought a suspect to be on the federal lands near Lake Mead National Recreation area a whole new set of rules applied. I know the head BLM LEO Chief is trying to get common ground with the Sheriff of San Bernardino and faces issues that were caused by the previous Sheriff. They want to be on the same page as BLM out at the dunes and in all reality it's better for us as users. I have been out of Law Enforcement for a long time but 4th Amendment issues are still the same, no matter where you are. I guess what I am trying to say is in the long run there is no reason for tension between users and LEO's of either jurisdiction. They want us to have a safe fun time and they want to protect the lands and the other people using the area. You may end up pursuing an issue in court but how is that going to play out with your department? How in the long run can you expect to make it a break even issue at best. I am not saying that you should lay down but remember that the fight is not neccsarrly won at the scene of the battle. If your having an issue with something going on, ask for a supervisor, record what's going on and take names and other info. I am hoping that you never have to get involved in something to this extreme again and it was a one time screw up by them. I have been told that the current crew of BLM officers are pretty well laid back and are more geared toward education but they are still going to write you if it's a blatant crime or you cop an attitude just as you would if you were on the street doing the same thing. One thing I know about cops is that they are trained and made to feel that they have to "win" at every contact. Not saying it's right it's just the mentality of staying alive in a dangerous occupation. Thank you for doing what you do, and hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrbackxp Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Thank you Terry. All I want is for BLM to enforce the law in a professional and correct manner. I truly hope the new crew out of BLM is more friendly and professional. It will make all of our times out in the dunes much more enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19th_AT Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Wow I guess I got more than I bargained for... Sorry for opening that can of worms. On the other hand, as a veteran I strongly believe that our rights are being violated more each and everyday. So with that in mind, Andy I applaud you for standing up. However, as Terry pointed out you will not win at the scene. A little respect and class goes a long ways. Hopefully both LEO and DUNER can get along..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzrbackxp Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 Wow I guess I got more than I bargained for... Sorry for opening that can of worms. On the other hand, as a veteran I strongly believe that our rights are being violated more each and everyday. So with that in mind, Andy I applaud you for standing up. However, as Terry pointed out you will not win at the scene. A little respect and class goes a long ways. Hopefully both LEO and DUNER can get along..... No worries...and this was never intended to start a war at any scene with BLM. Believe me when I say I am always professional and respectful with law enforcement. I'm even respectful with BLM when they were disrespectful to me. This was more for information because I camp with a few people who are fed up and some who are willing to press issues a lot farther than me. But I am hoping this season is better with the new crew Terry mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtBikeGuy Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 No worries...and this was never intended to start a war at any scene with BLM. Believe me when I say I am always professional and respectful with law enforcement. I'm even respectful with BLM when they were disrespectful to me. This was more for information because I camp with a few people who are fed up and some who are willing to press issues a lot farther than me. But I am hoping this season is better with the new crew Terry mentioned. ^^^ x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.