Adam @ GTP Off Road Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Some people are safe about it... slow and steady, a little scared about it you know. Others just don't get it, and some don't know to be scared. You'd think that BLM would put some info on the dunes, and having a Volunteer camp monitor(s) to help educate newbies could be helpful for the people that chose use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Hauling the side x side away yesterday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 I've heard of a couple, but none recently. I remember another was in a RZR up on one of the big, steep dunes. It was at night and the occupants weren't wearing seat belts. It's really sad to hear about all of these accidents. While searching the forum for an incident to show 702sandman, I came across pretty much every fatality over the last few years. Not a good read in any thread. The one common denominator was inexperience or lack/use of safety equipment. It got me thinking. I wish we could somehow reach out to or educate those who know nothing about Dumont. You know, those who never read this website or have any experienced friends to explain the basics about duning to them. Yes, we all think this should be common sense, but sometimes people get so excited about something so new and awesome they tend to overlook things, They have no idea you can't just pin it over a dune and land in the "soft, fluffy sand" and everything will be alright. I don't know. I have no solution. I just wish we could help the noobs that often lose their lives to something that is so easily avoidable. It would behoove the manufacturers to put safety classes on when they purchase a new SXS. Wouldn't be hard to set up a business teaching classes out at Nellis dunes and apex. But unlike the ATV side of it the manufacturers have not really been hit that hard with losses from lawsuits. I am not sure how you could get the companies to sponsor such a class like they do the ATV's but it might come down to getting the Government involved and first that takes money, lot's of time and patience and who know's if that would even work. Probably not many SXS accidents in the trails and the duning population is a small fraction of end users of these machines that I doubt it could get passed. You could create a course and get the dealers to pay or help pay for them to new customers. But have you ever tried to get $$ from a motorcycle dealer? There tighter than ticks! Don't know what the answer is but in this case it would be curious to know if it was a rental or if they just bought it and joined another bunch of unknowing friends and all went to the middle of the desert and none of them spoke English? Something just does not sound right about that. Just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas style Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 oregon has a atv safety class/card that is mandatory for everyone. i took it a few years ago and as a veteran driver i found it remedial. but i can see its importance to new riders it points out a lot the dangers and lays out the laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxysandchick Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Some of them spoke a little English, but hard to tell how much they understood. There were 7 in the group and all Asian descent, some were family and some friends. They came out in a truck and a jeep or 2 with flatbed trailers. They looked to just be here for the day, not camping. The other rig they had was farm/hunting equipment, camo Polaris Ranger I think it was. The guys were all wearing camo print outfits and hiking boots, no helmets or goggles so looked more like trails were their thing. Someone said the Can Am was new to them, so new toy and new to the dunes seems to be the consensus. They were doing donuts near another camp and had to be asked to stop, that was just before the crash and the camp who asked them to stop saw the crash, that is how they knew where the camp was to tell them what happened. Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxysandchick Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Just asked the BLM fire at the exit if he knew any info on the condition of the guy who was flown out, he knew about the accident but no update. The guy was flown to Vegas, probably UMC. A Jeep of theirs is at the Ranger station, temp tags from Cali. Sent from my XT1030 using Tapatalk Edited March 24, 2014 by Foxysandchick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam @ GTP Off Road Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The issue with the Oregon tag is just like anything other license or even a law requiring helmets... who enforces it? At Dumont there isn't anyone there most of the time to enforce things. Should a new user be educated, HELL YEAH. like everything there isn't a perfect answer though. I have the Oregon card also, but in 3 years, have never been asked for it, or asked about it. It was very repetitive and focused a lot on educating parents about their kids. Which is great, except I have not kids so most of it wasn't relevant at all. It also had to do with water crossings and use of BLM farm land type stuff that is leased. Good info that I didn't know, but will never use. It's a wonder who these folks were, by the info it sounds like they really had no idea where they were, and how the dunes are. It sucks this happened like this, for no good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDuner Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Damn.....what a horrible tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavtfan Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Sand thing to hear/see. When I rode by it I could tell it was not going to be a good outcome....couldnt' even tell what kind of sxs it was other than can am( I have never seen any can am land a good jump that I can remember anyway...they all seem to pitch forward really bad). Case in point why I don't get too crazy on the dunes....I know my limits and no matter how fun it would be to launch my quad 50 feet....i'll probably never get it much more than 2 feet off the ground, at my age it's just not worth it. Prayers to the families....that was the first time I've been at the dunes and seen a death....eerie feeling and it certainly re-sets that safety mode for me. Edited March 23, 2014 by flavtfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Coroner Case #701402335: On 03/22/2014 at 1:45 PM, a 911 call was received reporting an all terrain vehicle (ATV) accident on the western face of Competition Hill at Dumont Dunes. Emergency medical personnel responded arriving at 2:00 PM. They found the passenger of a 2014 Can Am Commander, a 44 year old Chinese male resident of Los Angeles, dead at the scene. The driver was airlifted to a Las Vegas Hospital. The California Highway Patrol is investigating the incident. The name will be released when the next of kin is notified. [03222014 2201 CM] Western face of comp hill? Wasn't this more at the base of the face hill near the superbowl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneFanatic24 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 So sad Prayers to the family. Pete, I think signs would be a good idea but how many people would actually stop and read them. Every time I bring new friends to Dumont I give them the run down of the razorbacks, witches eyes and the soft peaks. Then I will take them on a easy ride so they can see how the dunes are. I know this wouldn't work for a new group but just saying . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 So sad Prayers to the family. Pete, I think signs would be a good idea but how many people would actually stop and read them. Every time I bring new friends to Dumont I give them the run down of the razorbacks, witches eyes and the soft peaks. Then I will take them on a easy ride so they can see how the dunes are. I know this wouldn't work for a new group but just saying . I never mentioned signs would work. I think that was White Rhino's idea. It would be great if it was that easy, but in the end people will end up doing stupid things on their own regardless of what you tell them. I guess there really isn't a solution. People just need to be a little more cautious out there, especially when they are new, The driver made a terrible mistake in judgement and paid dearly for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadrockets Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 VERY SAD !! Prayers to all involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAND~~SNAKE Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Western face of comp hill? Wasn't this more at the base of the face hill near the superbowl? That report isn't accurate on the location, on your camp grid map it would be where the grid number 3 is. Also, the people on scene who removed the victims from the vehicle confused the driver and passenger in the heat of the moment, so it was actually passenger that was airlifted and driver who passed. It was upside down pointing up the hill and they removed the person on the left side looking from the rear 1st, so that was passenger side and he was alive, they had to flip it onto its tires to get the other occupant out cause his head was stuck under the cage and that put him on the left of the vehicle once it was up righted, which makes that the drivers side and he was dead on scene. That is how both people ended up on the ground on the same side of the vehicle next to each other. Also, seeing the drivers side cage impact and the head injury he sustained it was obvious he was driver. One of the family/friends kept pointing at the deceased guy and saying "driver", but due to her limited English nobody paid attention to her. Talked to the group at the north pole later that evening and they realized they reported driver/passenger wrong and said they would try to contact the agencies to get it corrected in case of legal action from the family of the guy who passed thinking it was the driver who survived and caused the death. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatooedwhtboy Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 We were out there all weekend and came up on the wreck shortly after it happened. Its a damn shame that a life has to be lost over ignorance. I'm a firm believer in learning new things in life but PLEASE learn from experienced people. From what I saw of the aftermath was pretty nasty. EVERYONE ...if you have a stock cage do yourself and your family and friends and get am aftermarket cage. These stock cages are garbage!!!!! it was a very Erie Feeling afterwards .....dunes were quiet for quite awhile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandpirates2 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Pete As Sand Snake said the location was almost straight out from bathroom 8. It was East of the big bowl. The comments about the feeling around the dunes for those thathad seen it and watched afterwards didn't so.much shut the the hill down but it was very slow for a long while afterwards. We cruised by late that evening and you didn't want to be there. People in the camp by us came by and said the same thing it puts a different feel about the dunes for a bit. One more comment I think if your new and fortunate to know somebody that is an experienced duner and the new duner is able to ride and learn for 5-6 solid rides of what you can and the dangers of why you cant under no circumstance then at least that new duner has the basics. But there are those we know who are radically experienced and none of us will ride as its just a matter of time. Edited March 24, 2014 by Sandpirates2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavtfan Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I ended up going on another ride about an hour after this happened just to get back at it and not let it get to me....definitely an eerie feeling. Also agree about he roll cages, it's a shame you have to "upgrade" the roll cages straight from factory and even though a better roll cage may not have helped in this situation it definitely could have increased the chances of at least the passenger sustaining less injury. Looks like the brunt of the impact was on the drivers side. Again...terrible feeling after this happened...first time ever at the dunes when someone passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bp-guy Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 All the signs/videos in the world cannot put an end to this. Bottom line is it starts/ends with the driver. Common sense and not riding beyond you and your equipment's abilities goes a long way. This type of accident could have been avoided but it will continue to happen many more times. Sounds to me like two guys were out having fun and got distracted while doing so and the driver misjudged the speed/dunes. Sucks he had to pay the ultimate price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 All the signs/videos in the world cannot put an end to this. Bottom line is it starts/ends with the driver. Common sense and not riding beyond you and your equipment's abilities goes a long way. This type of accident could have been avoided but it will continue to happen many more times. Sounds to me like two guys were out having fun and got distracted while doing so and the driver misjudged the speed/dunes. Sucks he had to pay the ultimate price. That's almost exactly what I said. So yep, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandawg Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) "if you have a stock cage do yourself and your family and friends and get an aftermarket cage. These stock cages are garbage" . . . I just don't think the engineers for the stock cages are building them for anything but a "Roll Over". I'm also not sure even an aftermarket cage would have saved the man that was killed. Are aftermarket cages better? I'm sure they are but there are so many other variables. What would happen if you dropped 1000 plus pounds from 2 stories high on the top of any cage? Plus the forward speed and angle of impact etc. etc. Just my opinion and I know all about "everybody has one" when talking about opinions. I too am sorry it happened! Edited March 24, 2014 by sandawg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavtfan Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 from the looks of the pic it looks like some part of the cage was pro armor...you can see the emblem just behind the pass seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDuner Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 That's part of the doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I don't think any cage including a lot of sand cars could have withstood that impact. Dumont is probably the most technical dunes there are in the US. I have ridden every set of dunes in the US except Killpecker , WY. and Silver Lake , Mich. They are not for the uneducated and newbie drivers to go full blast up and over any of those dunes. In the almost 40 years I have duned at Dumont I have been there numerous times when terrible things have happened and it does cause a different feel on the dunes. I rolled my Jeep there in 1975 and felt the most important thing to do was go for a ride up the face of the front dune with a friend. Ride the horse kinda thing. In this situation obviously and unfortunately that was impossible. I would love to see some kind of education course available even if it was just a U-Tube video and that might be a thing that BLM could ask for next year in a grant request. I will entertain that at the next sub-group meeting. Education is the key to staying healthy out there. My heart aches for the victims and I know they can can not ever enjoy the true beauty that Dumont is but I can only hope that they RIP and my sincere condolences to their families. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakster884 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Maybe a Risk Factor sign at the entrance with a max rating will at least put the thought of those reading that the Dunes are not to be taken lightly. Just a thought and a simple Sign with Visible impact. I am sure you do not want too scare people away but at least let them know what they are playing in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raspadoo Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'm biting my tongue on this one, there are no signs, warnings etc that need to be posted and no regulations that need to be implemented. Truly sad that someone passed so I will leave it at that.... My 2 cents.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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