The BLM abuse at its boiling point?

[blown572]

I am looking towards this upcoming pres day weekend with regret and sadness in my heart, not my usual uncontrollable excitement that this week usually brings and can't be cured till the motor home cabinets are shaking open bombing down the entrance road.

My family and I are sitting this one out as well as our whole group, and it has had a weird affect on me, I'm very very pissed about it, and I consider myself easy come,easy go.

For years this week and the weekend have been the one trip, if for whatever reason and I could only get one in, (which never happens) Presidents' Day was it.

It seems that this hostile curse that this Blm henchmen have been pursuing has finally worked on this duner, I'm done, and it's hard to say that.

When the BLM starts marching into camps at night for no good reason, detaining and searching families domisile (your motor home), blatantly harassing anyone for absolutely no probable cause, I'm done.

You see my friends, we can't fight this, we've been walking these lines and it is just getting worse, and yet your normal activity in the dunes still goes on, (no helmet, no whip, no lights, drinking) all the stuff that's been happening for years with the same effect, but yet the presence of law enforcement has gone up 10,000% for the same amount of visitors for any given weekend, yes the off weekends too.

So what's happening? In my opinion, there is so much law enforcement, that they are creating problems because either they are being told to do so, or the BLM has been given the budget for the manpower and those guys better go out there and find something to do or jobs (ie superviser jobs and money will be cut).

We can have discussions till the cows come home about the specific details in regards to, visitor traffic numbers, incidents, reason for this, this happened, blah blah blah, but the common fact remains, for a pretty small piece of desert, with really no activity for most of the year, with the same amount of people visiting, we've been subjected to a law enforcement increase and interaction frequency that is to me, absurd.

We cannot fight the BLM, it's only going to get worse, and I think very quickly, I've done my homework, and I have educated myself about search and seizure on federal land, all the use laws, the whole nine yards, and actually the citizen has a lot of rights, but we are dealing with an Enormous entity with infinite funding, and if you get caught up in a pissing contest over a reason why a BLM agent searched you motor home, found nothing and detained you, came up with some BS and either arrested you or cited you, your gonna lose, and they know this and they also know that you usually don't know your rights and your not going to do anything about it, nor can you unless your feeling like you need to spend a lot of time and money in court.

I'm sorry to be so negative and run on,but I'm sad to see a place that I love and has been a big part of my life for decades, turned into a tence, conflict rich, hostile environment.

On the other side, I recognize the need for proper management and enforcement of laws for the area, there is a positive side to it to some extent, but in my opinion we have crossed over to the other side, the excesses of mismanagement by the BLM have turned the good they used to do into pulling your wife over on quad cause we can't see the sticker and while we are at it how bout this and this and attitude and meanwhile there goes a crappy wannabe pre runner truck full of beer and meth, 20 min later,after its all said and done and nothing, carry on citizen. and it happening times 10, to a lot of people you just don't hear all of it.

So, how say you?

Am I wrong?

Am I just an old man that wants to left alone in the past?

Am I hypersensitive?

Have a safe weekend, and don't let the ranting of this guy get you down.

[dunefreak]

I've never had any issues like that at Dumont. When did this harassment and searching go on?

[DuNe~Rydher]

Me either. And they would never enter my toy hauler anyway. They legally can't without being let in or a search warrant. Just like your house.

Sent from the dune in front of you

[raspadoo]

Never heard of anyone complaining of being unnecessarily hassled at Dumont, Period. IMO it is an example on how they should operate as opposed to other so cal sand boxes.

[19th_AT]

Without a warrant LE is a no go in my trailer. Its a simple as that. I don't have anything to hide and I usually abide by the laws.

"Blown572" I'm sure we all have grief over stuff the BLM does and doesn't do. But with 4 posts here and just a handful of views why do you wait until now to bring this up? DDR is one of the most if not the most RELAXED/CHILL website forums there is. Please don't come here to stir crap up. Most importantly don't quit duning !

[~JILL~]

Never heard any of this stuff happening in the last 15 years or so ~ Unless a reason has come up for them to do so. I have seen some at the entrance road but usually flat bed trailers and there really was a reason. 250 tickets that one weekend I watched. Tag checks VIN #'s. & of course their puppy dog. There has to be more to this ~~~

[bansheerider]

I have be going to Dumont sense 1993 and have never had any problems with the BLM or sheriffs .

Edited February 11, 2016 by bansheerider

[flavtfan]

Sounds like Glamis, not Dumont. I've never had any trouble when I'm obeying the laws. We had them come up to our camp one night and confiscate fireworks that they saw us shoot off but....they are illegal out there so I shouldn't have had them anyway.

[blown572]

So let me address the replies to my post as to clarify any speculation in regards to validatity and the nature of "starting crap".

First off, I didn't wait to post this, it's that time of year for a pres day trip and I was pondering the upcoming weekend and thought maybe I'd share my feelings, obviously not welcome.

Second, I assume now that to post anything that goes on in dumont, it needs to be about rainbows and unicorns because all that ever happens out there is warm fuzzy stuff right? Starting anything is the last of my intentions, let me be real clear on that, provoking a reaction by sharing my thoughts is not my intent.

As to the incidents that I have been personally involved in (2 to be exact) I was hoping on not having to devulge the details, due to possible blow back from any law enforcement on this site but, it's only fair to anyone interested, they get a little back story.

On a trip with group of friends in December, two days before xmas, the weather was horrible, it was six of us, all guys, all dirt bikes, going riding for two days for a friends b-day, my motor home, my toy box, 3 4 wheel drive trucks. All registered, insured, the whole bit.

3 of us staying the night, the rest going home. Christmas time, a quick rip and back home to the fam before the holiday.

Mid afternoon, I noticed a Blm pickup cruising, no biggie, our usual no riding option, clear out the trailer, play some poker and settle in to some cocktails and a night by the fire, after 20 or 30 min after sighting Blm, I'm back in the trailer taking people's money and at the door, comes Mr Blm, to spare the details and going on forever, after the hour long shakedown, involving potential arrests for gambling, a confiscation of a registered 9mm(visible on a workbench nothing in the chamber), possible dui arrest for "keys in the ignition" of a parked motor home and a probable cause to search due to a thumb size piece of weed on the workbench, and multiple threats and accusations, this ordeal ended.

For law enforcement to walk into a doorway of a trailer for no reason whatsoever is crazy to me, I won't even get within 50ft of anyone's camp, let alone walk into one.

The details to this incident are endless, believe me, it was a nightmare, I haven't even had a traffic ticket in 15 yrs, let alone presumed "under arrest".

The reason I even shared this was to maybe open people's eyes to the fact that in the last couple of years out there, it's turned into a shakedown street, even if you're in your own camp.

Nuff said, take or leave it, just my thoughts and my experience, thought I'd share.

Safe duning.

[dirtflickarooster]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, and thank you for sharing your story. Its probably best to always stay on your toes and expect things to happen. Hopefully this topic does not turn into a back and forth bash session because everyone I have met from this site has been really good people. We all have the same interest which is getting out and having fun in the dunes. I already feel like we are a dying breed out in the dunes and it sucks to lose members of the dune family. Give it another shot. I have heard of many more good experiences than bad so hopefully it was an isolated event. I would like to know more about the weekend that people were getting harassed on the entrance rode and what provoked that. I have always been one that has done my best to respect the LEO's, and even offer them water or another beverage (soda) when I see them out and about. Typically they respond back with respect and they respectfully decline the beverage, but i can tell they appreciate the offer. I have also seen ranger actually hang out with fellow duners and go for a ride. (maybe they were off duty?) But like everything there will always be good and bad and hopefully it does not happen again. Anyways I respect all views good and bad, and i do not discredit the legitimacy of anyone's experience. Stay positive and stay duning!

[SAND~~SNAKE]

Firearms,alcohol,Marijuana... Really???

I can only guess where thus goes.

[ocean's 4]

Held my tongue for years (6 to be exact, you will know why at the end of this glorious little story) on this topic, but.....they suck. I got a ticket for getting a beer out of my ice chest. No kidding. I went into my trailer, came out, went to my ice chest, grabbed a beer, and next thing you know there is a BLM there shaking his pepper spray telling me to back up. Next thing you know, my butt is on a hot bumper being searched. Got $100 fine for getting a beer...on my birthday. On the ticket it said I was interfering with an officer. I have still yet to figure out why this ever happened to begin with, how I was interfering, or why they were lurking behind my trailer.

[fireride]

I have only had good experiences with BLM and I've been stopped at the entrance and asked if I minded them looking in my

enclosed trailer, and I gladly did. Nothing to hide, including weed that's illegal or a pistol in plain sight. I too have a license to carry and it stays concealed and loaded. My experience has been positive and I appreciate their time and effort to keep Dumont open and safe. My only issue ever was the CHP who pulled over my kids for driving too fast in the camps (and they were) but the real reason they stopped them was to check for DUI. I was happy to let them explain why they should slow down in the

camp area and wasn't worried about the DUI, we don't drink until the riding is done. Sorry about your bad experience hope

you don't let it stop you from dunning.

[ynot]

Ok, I am going to jump in here even though I haven't been to Dumont in the last 14 months. I left duning not because of the LEO but partly because I had been dealing with the BLM in a political manner for the previous 10 years. I saw a lot of good relationships built with BLM and when the LEO's got a little heavy than a phone call to the area manager brought results and things calmed down. On the big weekends they were bringing in LEO's from Vegas (BLM Vegas is very anti- off road) and there were some heavy handed issues. This was resolved fairly quickly and life at Dumont continued. However when the new manager things started to change, her attitude is not one of cooperation with duner's and I believe she manages Dumont with little to no thought of what the duners want. That is my opinion from being on the sub-group with her since her arrival in Barstow. As to your case Blown72, you have to own what happened. It's illegal to have a weapon in Ca. There are very few CCW holders in Ca. and they have very strange rules about seperating clips from weapons and you than add in the weed and wonder why you may have gotten attitude? You never know why or what a LEO see's as Probable cause. Maybe someone outside your trailer when he drove by was taking a leak next to the trailer or there could be any multitude of reasons for him to poke his head into your trailer. But when he see's a weapon, weed and a bunch of guys in an enclosed area and probably cannot see all your hands his sense of danger goes through the roof. It sounds like your trying to blame BLM for your lack of common sense and having an exposed weapon and weed in plain sight kinda supports the case for the LEO's. If you were smoking the weed and he approached the trailer it is going to smell like weed. It's in my opinion on you and your crew in this case. Think about it from his view for a second, he for what ever reason decides to check out something that caught his attention, he approaches a trailer , see's a weapon and weed lying in plain sight and his closest back up is 60 miles away and he is out manned several to one, what else would you expect him to do but put on his hard case attitude to make sure you guys were aware he was in control. It's a law enforcement way of staying alive. You can give up on the dunes and blame it on BLM but you need to look in the mirror to see who's responsible for what happened. I gave up duning after 40 years for a lot of reasons but none of them was because of Law Enforcement. if one of you had or have been hurt at Dumont I will guarantee you will be very happy to have them on scene helping you out. The needs at Dumont have slowed down because traffic has slowed down, there is not the rush that was a few years ago and to be blunt, the serious family duners are glad that's it back to the way it used to be before everybody and their brother re-financed there home, bought expensive OHV's and trailers and went to Dumont and thought there was no rules. If you had quit back then, I am sure no one on this forum would blame you. If you decide to quit now due to one or 2 run in's with LEO's than I have to lean on it's more to the real story than your admitting. So no one on here is judging you and you have to make up your own mind on it, but as for me it would appear from your post that you owned that one.

Edited February 11, 2016 by ynot

[blown572]

Well to you Ynot, thank you for your personal sacrifice to a cause near and dear to my heart, dumont, I love dumont, our family has been going there since the 80s and in my best year I put in 11 trips all at a min of 3 days, and in no way am I quitting , we are just not going when the concentration of law enforcement is higher.

With that said, trust me, my common sense is at a premium, I see both sides of the story and will take what's due to me when needed, in this case not so much.

Specificly, first point of contact, those trucks have PAs, sirens, horns, whatever, bad call on him, even if all 6 of us walked outside and pissed into the wind at once.

The weapon didn't even come into it until I told him it was there. If I or anybody else for that matter wanted to ride through dumont with an AR15 on our backs we could do it legally, it's called "open carry" no permit needed and that right is protected by th 2nd amendment. Fact, even in CA. (2013 the Supreme Court overruled ca's law against it, with exception to "safe zones" I.e. Schools)

In regards to people having some grass, he didn't know that was there either till after we had to get out of the toy box and assume the position, and even then, he was told where it was, who's it was, and where the rest of it was. (A truck 15 ft away)

Im talking about a camp, two days before xmas, with minimal activity around it due to weather, with no other campers within 3,000ft of us, and he decides to blast into the doorway for no reason. At a minimum, I can think of 3 different ways to initiate point of contact, that at the very least, would have 1, been safer for him, and 2, be a lot less intimidating to us, being that we didn't just knock off a bank heist, just sayin.

It's called the bureau of land "Management".

[blown572]

Well, seeing as how I've lit my own stake burning fire, I might as well give the details of our prior run in with them, so as to ease any question as to the reason for my frustration.

Two years ago, when we still had our five seater, I used to bring all the fuel in the VP drums for the car, my wife and my buddies wife, while a bunch of us went on a ride, took the the kids and the truck over to vendors for whatever, they left vendors and went tooling around the camps in the truck, the little kids like that, Blm lights em up, demands the usual, tells my wife, that it against the law to sell gas and says she getting a ticket for selling gas to people(I forgot the exact wording they used) she tells him, absolutely not true, prove it, they get into it back and fourth, he gets pushy and stern and scares the kids, they start crying, and then it escalates.

While all this is going on, the passenger hears the other Leo's (as you say), talk about "those other cans" and the "cans under that shirt" referring to my wife's boobs, they are off to the side and don't know the slider window is open and she can hear everything, she has enuff, rolls down the front window, and calls em on it, and then it goes off the charts, my wife looks at him and says "All your names and badges now, and get your superior over here now" he realizes the others just shot themselves in the foot, gives her back her license and tells her to have nice day.

She gets out of the truck presses the names and badges thing and he theatens to arrest her, she backs down comes back to camp, I get back, get briefed, we go over to the compound and I'm so pissed I can even see straight because it really scared my daughter and she was 3, I go in calmly and tell the story to whoever and get the swift attitude like it never happened and you should leave before I get myself in trouble.

So, that was the most I've typed in 43 years on earth.

Again, I just started this to bring my thoughts out, I was feeling frustrated this morning and thought I would vent, if it's not welcome, I get it, but who else can relate to this stuff, the guys over on the model train club site? No,you guys.

I love dumont, i just love it a whole lot better when I'm not in mix.

(And no, my wife wasn't selling my 100 proof, I would have made her sleep outside)

[19th_AT]

For all of your frustrations due to BLM, I'm sorry. For all the headache you have brought on by your own actions and lack of oversight......

http://tmrci.org/

[TIFFNAUB]

I've been going to Dumont for almost 30 years and never had any problems like that

[dunefreak]

Firearms,alcohol,Marijuana...

This camp sounds like fun.

I think we can all agree there are some bad apples in the BLM or law enforcement in general. I have had my own bad experiences with them in the past, but I don't feel the department as a whole is out to harass duners unless they give them good reason to.

[nas6car]

federal land they can do whatever they want.its my opinion that this is more about Oregon then Dumont, and I agree even though I have never had a problem at Dumont in 20 years of going.

[White Rhino]

I've never had an issue with BLM. Not much interaction either. Now the Sherrifs I have had many interactions and all 100% positive. I actually go out of my way to talk to the Sherrifs those are some cool dudes.

[Mr. Sandman]

40 year Dumont regular myself dating back to my early teens when I knew it all and was stupid. Never an issue with the BLM except one time when the kids were launching model rockets. Mr Rangerman visited our camp to make sure they weren't fireworks, reminded us that beer bottles weren't allowed and said enjoy the rest of your weekend. Other than that, never an issue with the BLM and that contact was just them doing what our taxes pay for after getting their attention with the rockets.

[sandawg]

Here's another one for your folder on the field manager in Barstow Terry. I called the office on

Thursday to try and see if I could enter on a day pass on Saturday. NO one answered the phone and I was told to leave a message. I did but never got called back.

The purpose of my day trip was to find some of Bob's friends that knew him from his many trips to

Dumont over many years. I knew many of them didn't go on here or read facebook and would appreciate

hearing about his unexpected death.

I went over early Saturday morning and stopped at the fee station to plead my case to not have to pay the full weeks fee when I was only going to be there a couple of hours. got several "sorrys" but

"that is the policy".

One of the ladies at the gate recognized me from my many trips that always include a trip down from

our perch on the bluff to say hi to all of the workers I and Bob knew. I asked where one of the

regulars was that I know and, he knows me and was told he was working the late shift and was told he wouldn't be "authorized" to let me in on a day pass or a visitors pass that I have seen issued before for short visits.

There were comments by BLM personnel made, that they really should have a day pass at Dumont like

they do at another BLM run OHV area from the Barstow Office.

I could go on but it came to the point that I paid the $40 bucks for entry into Dumont and was gone

in less than 4 hours after finding and contacting 7 people that appreciated my efforts.

I sure hope for Katrina's future management assignments she learns that there are grey areas in life and business and not everything should be based on what is in a book or are always black and white.

When exiting I stopped and asked for the person at the gate to mark the time I left on my receipt and he wouldn't do it.

Manage by fear, come on now!

Edited February 15, 2016 by sandawg

[raspadoo]

Here's another one for your folder on the field manager in Barstow Terry. I called the office on

Thursday to try and see if I could enter on a day pass on Saturday. NO one answered the phone and I was told to leave a message. I did but never got called back.

The purpose of my day trip was to find some of Bob's friends that knew him from his many trips to

Dumont over many years. I knew many of them didn't go on here or read facebook and would appreciate

hearing about his unexpected death.

I went over early Saturday morning and stopped at the fee station to plead my case to not have to pay the full weeks fee when I was only going to be there a couple of hours. got several "sorrys" but

"that is the policy".

One of the ladies at the gate recognized me from my many trips that always include a trip down from

our perch on the bluff to say hi to all of the workers I and Bob knew. I asked where one of the

regulars was that I know and, he knows me and was told he was working the late shift and was told he wouldn't be "authorized" to let me in on a day pass or a visitors pass that I have seen issued before for short visits.

There were comments by BLM personnel made, that they really should have a day pass at Dumont like

they do at another BLM run OHV area from the Barstow Office.

I could go on but it came to the point that I paid the $40 bucks for entry into Dumont and was gone

in less than 4 hours after finding and contacting 7 people that appreciated my efforts.

I sure hope for Katrina's future management assignments she learns that there are grey areas in life and business and not everything should be based on what is in a book or are always black and white.

When exiting I stopped and asked for the person at the gate to mark the time I left on my receipt and he wouldn't do it.

Manage by fear, come on now!

It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both.

Niccolo Machiavelli

[desertrider71]

I buy a season pass every year but I am all in for a day pass rate as I have people meet me out there to stay with me for a day on average and experience the awesomeness that is Dumont. I'm thinking that if you wanted to get out there to connect with people to share some news with them knowing there is no day rate you would expect to pay the full weeks rate to enter. It would appear that the $40 is nothing to get the news out that you needed to. Kind of two separate issues but seems like an entitlement issue.