Tax dollars hard at work.

[dunefreak]

I have to say, I've read through most of this but not all of it after it got to be just repeats of the same complaints and I need to jump in here...

First, it has already been pointed out that these were not BLM rangers, they were San Bernardino Sheriff Office personnel. It's a fine line but still a line worth recognizing.

Were they out there doing a tough job and decided to have a little fun with it? I'm sure they were and they did. Same thing happened a few years ago when a couple rangers raced down the afternoon drags. The crowd loved it and it showed a human side to the rangers that none of us knew existed. Still, people will object and others will support and in the end the only thing that got hurt was the one guy's pride who had to walk that bike down the dune face.

Now... as for the flags...

Believe it or not, there is a grey area when it comes to whips and flags on dirt bikes. I'll try to find the exact wording, but I want everyone to know this has been discussed over and over at the State level and I have yet to see the solution or elimination of the grey area. It has something to do with race bikes and not being able to differentiate between that and another dirtbike.

And tickets can still be issued under a "blanket" BLM regulation that is used often on public lands. SHOULD they have had whips/flags? ABSOLUTELY, if only because of conversations like the one that has been burning over this. The perception is one of being above the law... never mind that they may indeed have been following the exact letter of the law as they interpret it.

Of course, if the grey area of that law is no longer grey, that's another matter entirely. I'll see what I can find out and post the answer.

Vicki

Well if there is a grey area regarding the flags on 2 wheelers, then the BLM ranger was unaware of that who rushed over to a friend of mine missing a flag on Saturday at comp. Maybe they just so happen to overlook these 2 whatever they are: blm, sheriff office personal, or whatever. I was under the inpression EVERY bike that is ridden at Dumont (whether it be on the flats or on the dunes)...needs a flag.

[SailAway]

Well if there is a grey area regarding the flags on 2 wheelers, then the BLM ranger was unaware of that who rushed over to a friend of mine missing a flag on Saturday at comp. Maybe they just so happen to overlook these 2 whatever they are: blm, sheriff office personal, or whatever. I was under the inpression EVERY bike that is ridden at Dumont (whether it be on the flats or on the dunes)...needs a flag.

Yep. Like I said, there is a "blanket" regulation that is used often on public lands that most likely was used for your friend.

Come to the TRT meeting and we'll bring up this issue and probably get into all the different kinds of law enforcement out there... some are enforcing federal laws, some are enforcing state laws, some are enforcing county laws and some are enforcing all of them. Some rangers have law enforcement duties and others are not able to write tickets. Some have EMS certificates and some do not.

Unfortunately, it sounds like they are also dropping the ball on communicating with each other. But it does sound like the big cheese at the SBSO is going to take those two to task, as he should.

Vicki

[Foxysandchick]

I by no means want to be someone who , but I want to give my being that I use to work law enforcement. To me it is simple..IF they were on their own time or a break and practicing their skills, which they should do (you would want them to know how to shoot those guns if needed so they should be skilled on those bikes also) then they could have avoided any problem by 2 things 1. Not wearing the uniform 2. Having a flag (fuzzy part in the law or not). When I worked on the police department, if we had our uniform on then we were on duty and expected to act like it. I don't have a problem with them going for a joy ride or practicing their skills, but they need to follow the rules they enforce. We do need to respect them for the job they do, imagine what would happen if there wasn't any enforcement out there and .

I always have to appreciate anyone who is willing to give their opinion on a topic such as this that tends to get a little heated at times.

[barefoot bob]

this whole conversation would be less serious and not as heated if we were all standing around discussing this in our underwear whatta ya think about that !!!!!

Edited February 21, 2007 by barefoot bob

[Foxysandchick]

this whole conversation would be less serious and not as heated if we were all standing around discussing this in our underwear whatta ya think about that !!!!!

[SandBox_Kid]

this whole conversation would be less serious and not as heated if we were all standing around discussing this in our underwear whatta ya think about that !!!!!

I'm not going to think about that one bob......

[painterjoe]

this whole conversation would be less serious and not as heated if we were all standing around discussing this in our underwear whatta ya think about that !!!!!

[YFZ Chick]

this whole conversation would be less serious and not as heated if we were all standing around discussing this in our underwear whatta ya think about that !!!!!

I like that idea, lets try it out. Thanks for the input Bob

Edited February 22, 2007 by YFZ Chick

[Bound4Dirt]

You're killing me!

[Bound4Dirt]

I like that idea, lets try it out. Thanks for the input Bob

[dunefreak]

Whoah........Why are you coming after me here? If you re-read the first half of my post, you'll see that I was actually defending them by merely suggesting another possibility (and anyone who knows me would tell you how rare that is because I don't like cops!!!) As for the flags, a slap on the wrist is not good enough. They should be ticketed. If people are being chased down and fined for not having a flag, then the fuggin' cops should get the same treatment. Practice what you preach mother-effers!!!

Tell us how you really feel, Glenn! Don't be sugarcoating it!

[Richard Cheese]

all I gotta add to this is.....

what, about 50,000 people out there?

OK here is your new job. Deal with 50,000 people, some of which are driving drunk. Some are also riding without helmets. Even More are riding 2-3 up.

public drunkeness

stripper poles @ the hill

flatbillers duning their rides home UP COMP HILL dee dee dee

fatalities

constant calls for emergency

people dumping trash

wrecks

fights

even more public drunkeness

people using farm equipment in a way never thought possible

more flatbillers that do not know to hook up to the frame to tow a vehicle......dee dee dee

and probably a hell of a lot more shiat that we don't hear about.

it seems like it is a controlled chaos the whole time. I have the ultimate respect for LEO's. Yes I know that there are some bad ones, just like there are in duners, BUT, these people swore an oath to put their lives on the line for US, the taxpayers, and that gets my respect. NO matter if they are VIC from THE SHIELD or not.

Try dealing with azzhoes all day long, and then attempt to have control enough to tone it down for the non-azzhoes. if it's been lights on all day long, well then, you better watch your P's and Q's, cause they will find any little thing that pisses them off on you. I know, I have been at the point before.

I am not giving anyone shiat for what happened to them this weekend. You just got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time

[HORNMAN]

I still think the "Cop drags" where great! Just letting everyone know that they are fun too. Their job is to enforce the rules. And alot of peeps got off lightly, I'm sure. We all know who we can run from now.

These guys are doing a GREAT job.

Oh teah... where are ya gona run to at Dumont??? LOL!

[painterjoe]

[Glam_mom]

Really.. a picture is worth a 1000 words.

'Whips' comes to my mind. They must have fallen and broke the whip.

I've done that before on my dirt bike in the dunes.

Now they at least know.. it is possible to lose a whip and not KNOW IT?!!

ha ha.

[RAGDOLL MX]

well since everyone has beat up the whole flag issue, so ill just say this...the one on the KX should be wearing MX Boots!!!

[RAGDOLL MX]

i think its great that they were draggin eachother, they also have the same interest as us, just put a whip on their bikes! Duhhhh who polices the police?

[dinicolady]

Try dealing with azzhoes all day long, and then attempt to have control enough to tone it down for the non-azzhoes. if it's been lights on all day long, well then, you better watch your P's and Q's, cause they will find any little thing that pisses them off on you. I know, I have been at the point before.

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with Mr. Cheese! We had a "run in" with a ranger over Tday weekend. Late Saturday afternoon, we're down in the wash, near the main road, watching the kids mud drag. Also watching this ranger chase some people out trying to camp on the other side of the trailhead (no-no zone). He then drove over to us, pulled up in front of my husband and started bitching about us being there and "didn't we see the signs?" Well, the path we took, there were NO out of bounds signs and we informed him of that very respectfully. He just shook his head and drove off quite abruptly. No ticket, no warning to leave, just attitude.

My point is: After dealing with the huge crowds, idiots, drunken mayhem, accidents et all, I really cannot blame them for their frustration. And this guy was TOTALLY frustrated and attempted to take it out on us non-a-holes. I do have the utmost respect for these rangers, officers, EMT's and the like for being out there and trying to keep it a safe place to play. It's a shame too many "bad apples" make that job so difficult.

Edited February 22, 2007 by dinicolady

[HappyHour]

I guess I'll chime in on this one. :gayboy: I grew up in a law enforcement family, my father is an "old school" retired cop of 20 years service. So old school that he retired over 20 years ago. But anyway, I feel that while they should have had whips on the bikes, sometime cops need an outlet of a fun factor to deal with what they deal with everyday they work and shooting up the hill is that outlet for them out there. I am definitely no "cop lover" just because of my dad, there are real a-holes out there expecially with the cops of today. But still, dealing with every moron in the western hemisphere out there all day, they need that little shot in the arm of a good time. I think that if they had whips on the bikes, this disscussion would not be taking place IMHO. My dad always said that if you want to be liked, be a fireman......not a cop.

[trqjnky]

I guess I'll chime in on this one. :gayboy: I grew up in a law enforcement family, my father is an "old school" retired cop of 20 years service. So old school that he retired over 20 years ago. But anyway, I feel that while they should have had whips on the bikes, sometime cops need an outlet of a fun factor to deal with what they deal with everyday they work and shooting up the hill is that outlet for them out there. I am definitely no "cop lover" just because of my dad, there are real a-holes out there expecially with the cops of today. But still, dealing with every moron in the western hemisphere out there all day, they need that little shot in the arm of a good time. I think that if they had whips on the bikes, this disscussion would not be taking place IMHO. My dad always said that if you want to be liked, be a fireman......not a cop.

thats funny!

[painterjoe]

I guess after dealing with the rangers at Glamis I have a bad attitude towards them, one of the main reasons I enjoy Dumont so much more, the rangers are alot more lienient. If they would just treat us with a little more respect, it seems like they almost talk down to us like we are little kids. I use to go out of my way if I would see them at the hill watching to strike up conversation but all I would get is attitude. I have no problem if I am doing something wrong I should get a ticket, but treat me a person not a criminal. Yes I agree they deal with alot of bad people but that's thier job and they are trained to deal with it.

[Kens Colors]

:gayboy: are subject to change without notice

[sMitty]

....

Edited February 17, 2017 by sMitty

[ynot]

....unbelievable....only here can you declare in 1 breath that the "Glamis types" need to be weeded out for the greater good, and whine about the cops that are attempting to effect just that....

The sheriffs racing up the hill are trying to show a human side by blending in with the populus and demonstrating an interest in duning....grow up folks....if u dont want a ticket, dont break the law .....

would you rather have cops driving around w/ out flags, or drunken chaos and potential deaths as a direct result of their abscence?

I'll pay whatever cost for even more cops if it means keeping the drunken / high / non-conformists at bay for the protection of my family.... :eatdrink021:

Here Here!!!

[donutz&dunz]

Here Here!!!

“WOW!” Flags have been controversial throughout world history, but I never thought that not displaying a flag would bring about so much controversy.

I’m not posting this because I am offended or upset by what has been said. I have heard what everyone has had to say so now I would like a turn. And I honestly say this with a humble heart and without malice. I have a good sense of humor and working this long in law enforcement I have gotten use to being hated.

I am the NOVICE, poor excuse for an LEO that was riding the Yamaha. I liked those two. Oh wait, “turds” made me laugh too.

I have been visiting both Glamis and Dumont Dunes and riding MX since the 1970’s, I was born in the 1970’s. Although I have slacked off the MX because it got pretty $$$$$ I still compete in sport / expert level mountain biking.

Yes you’re right I was wrong for not having a flag on my motorcycle and you have a right to be upset. It’s not a matter of weather I believe I am above the law or that it doesn’t apply to me.

I personally have been stopped and issued a ticket for not having a flag on two separate occasions in the past both at Dumont and Glamis. I never I.D.’d myself as a law enforcement officer. I just took my ticket and paid my fine. On both occasions the LEO that stopped me was a complete JERK. This brings me to the reason why I chose to work this assignment. I feel that everyone is out there to have a good time, yes even us. What I’ve seen in the past was a couple LEO’s who had no background what so ever in offroading treating people, “such as myself” like criminals just because we like to make a lot of noise and a little dust. I am not talking about any one agency in particular it seemed like it was that way across the board. Glamis was really bad although the crowd was a lot worse there too and maybe the cops there need to be. Dumont is more family oriented and I try to be fair but firm when I need to be. I have had friends and family members who have been issued tickets also and I have to listen to them complain as well. Considering how dangerous this sport is if you make it through a holiday weekend at either Dumont or Glamis and the worst thing that happened was you received a ticket then I’d say you don’t have much to complain about. Just ask the 9 airlifted out or LuggNuttz who will never get to see his cousin again. I will say I personally have never been rude to anyone ever, who was not rude to me first.

The Sheriffs Department OHV team is currently comprised of Regular Deputies as well as Reserve Deputies who volunteer their time. I have been a part of the team for 2-3 yrs now and I can honestly say I have never written an actual citation for any violation I have seen out there. I have written A LOT of warning citations which does not require a court date or fine to be paid. I feel that’s all most people need and they will comply, although I know a lot of my partners feel differently which is why I’m out there, to try to balance them out.

I did not get paid for the 1 hr I was out there taking a break from the 9 airlifted and 1 fatality that we were dealing with not to mention all the stuff I over looked, “There’s a bunch of you who know who and what I’m talking about.” I left my uniform and radio on so that if something did occur I would be able to respond, all be it more quickly on my bike. Have you seen those quads we ride???

Back to the fatality, I hope the family is doing well considering their loss. All the, “So called paid professionals” were tied up on other injuries and the resources for medical aid was pretty well tapped. When my partner arrived on scene he began assisting with CPR. Now if we really took our power too seriously as you all think we would have all civilians back away from the scene. Instead we know there is a lot of off duty firemen, nurses, EMT’s, etc out there who jump in without hesitation to assist and we love those guys/girls for it. We REALLY APPRECIATE your help. I specialize in things such as gangs and narcotics not medical aid, so if you see me standing around with my hands in my pockets it’s because I’m just staying out of their way.

Now I thought that most would appreciate seeing the cops out there having a good time with them rather than impeding on your fun. But if you would rather have me out there working non stop enforcing the laws then the people have spoken and you have made it clear I work for you….Taxes….Most of us feel we are there to manage your fun not control it and to be there when you need us. If you feel that is unprofessional then your voice has been heard and I assure you, you will see a more professional organization in the future.

I know the guys we were racing were enjoying rocking us when their 450’s would smoke past my 250, “It’s all good.” I’ll have a 450 next time guys and yes it will have a flag and I wont by wearing an extra 30 lbs of equipment.

I must say this since everyone was so concerned about me being paid. If I am off duty at 2:00 a.m. (not getting paid), why is it O.K. for people to come knocking at the door of my personal trailer at 4:00-6:00 a.m.????? Should I get paid for that and if so, how much?

As several of you have said we are human and make mistakes. I was curious, how many of you obeyed the 55mph speed limit while pulling your 40’ trailers out there. See what I mean. I’m not going to apologize because I don’t think that’s what you are looking for here. But I will say you will not see that from me or anyone else on my team again. I will be out racing again without uniform look for that KX450 with a flag and I’ll meet you at the bottom of the hill for some good Old fashion racing.