TRT meeting, June 5th

[SailAway]

The next DAC meeting is set for June 22-23 in Riverside, California. The 22nd is a Friday and they usually do a tour of a nearby BLM area. The "meat" of the meeting, including public comment opportunities, takes place on Saturday.

Vicki

Edited June 7, 2007 by SailAway

[RacerX]

There is already a speed limit and it does not a fcking thing!!!!

The rangers will just watch as people speed by just like they have for the last couple of years

Rangers need to be stationed at the exit from comp to the flats at that little hill on your right as your coming back(so you have plenty of room to slow down coming off the whoops) and at the last finger dune.

Also the river doesnt get any drier!!!!

First of all, Thanks Terry for sitting on the phone for three hours to speak up for all of us!!

The way that I heard it on Tuesday from the LEO in attendance was, "The current law states the speed limit within 50 feet of a campsite is X, it is very hard to prove the distance from a campsite when you are a little ways away viewing the infraction taking place. This gets hard to prove in court". That is why we were talking of a new law, or current one that could be more enforceable, or if it is just a matter of more LEO's, jack up the admission to pay for them, and we complain about that too. From what I heard at the meetings, these problems are not that outrageous and can be resolved. Maybe some of us with a good repore with the LEO's could get a neighborhood watch program of some sort and report problems to the LEO's to check out when they have time.

As for the river, they said "There is still water a little ways upstream", maybe some digital pictures from us on a regular basis, e-mailed to their office, could speed this up.

Throw out some ideas, get involved, DDR is big enough to make a major impact out there.

[FE135]

That is why we were talking of a new law, or current one that could be more enforceable,

What gives them the power to create a new law? Maybe you misunderstood him, I hope.

My observation is the current laws are enforced in an adhoc fashon. Usually by the easy pickins that happen in front of them. I have seen rangers parked in the camping areas and do nothing about speeders in the area. My thought at the time is usually "how can he not see that?"

On a positive, I have seen them bring a tractor to an area and fill the worm tracks.

[ynot]

What gives them the power to create a new law? Maybe you misunderstood him, I hope.

My observation is the current laws are enforced in an adhoc fashon. Usually by the easy pickins that happen in front of them. I have seen rangers parked in the camping areas and do nothing about speeders in the area. My thought at the time is usually "how can he not see that?"

On a positive, I have seen them bring a tractor to an area and fill the worm tracks.

The power to create a new law is a formal request from a district office and then it has to go thru the formal channels including the federal registray and public comment. Right now the speeding law is tuff to enforce as you have to guess at distance from a campsite and approx. speed of something over 25 mph. The radar guns reflect off the sides of motorhomes and trailers and become hard to calibrate and thus are not used. Do the rangers let some things go on in front of them that you may want enforced, yes they do. Why, because they have priorities and must be able to clear and go to an accident or other happining. If they wanted to enforce the "reckless Driving " law they could easily do that in many cases but do not like to use that ticket as it has an impact on peoples driving record and is major dollars as some on this forum can attest to. For that reason i appreciated the LEO's forthright answer about why they don't use it all that often. I believe the rangers try to cut a break when they can but sometimes they have to do what they need to do.

Will this new rule change things, i hope so but we all know there will never be enough rangers to stop everything that goes on but do we really want them to?

[FE135]

The power to create a new law is a formal request from a district office and then it has to go thru the formal channels including the federal registray and public comment. Right now the speeding law is tuff to enforce as you have to guess at distance from a campsite and approx. speed of something over 25 mph. The radar guns reflect off the sides of motorhomes and trailers and become hard to calibrate and thus are not used. Do the rangers let some things go on in front of them that you may want enforced, yes they do. Why, because they have priorities and must be able to clear and go to an accident or other happining. If they wanted to enforce the "reckless Driving " law they could easily do that in many cases but do not like to use that ticket as it has an impact on peoples driving record and is major dollars as some on this forum can attest to. For that reason i appreciated the LEO's forthright answer about why they don't use it all that often. I believe the rangers try to cut a break when they can but sometimes they have to do what they need to do.

Will this new rule change things, i hope so but we all know there will never be enough rangers to stop everything that goes on but do we really want them to?

Thanks for the reply. Let me expand on my original comment. The speed limits are from vehicle codes and not changeable at the law enforcement level (I’m remembering my schoolhouse rock "I'm just a Bill" song). If not in the codes, how can you be ticketed for an infraction?

As far as the federal register, I have checked it each week now for a month and gone back to 2002 looking for anything on fees (or anything) at Dumont. I have not seen any posts. The law requires this. I may have missed something, do you have a copy? Makes me want to say the fees are illegal. At least that’s my wishful thinking.

[SailAway]

I'm sure it would be considered a 'supplemental rule' and the procedure Terry outlined above is correct, and perfectly legal.

As for whether they get enforced and picking and choosing when they get enforced, that's actually how the process is supposed to work.

There is a difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. For instance, at Glamis there is a supplemental rule prohibiting the use of gasoline on a fire. The spirit of the law was aimed primarily at keeping the fools at the bottom of competition hill from digging trenches, filling them with gas and lighting them on fire when someone drives through. The letter of the law doesn't read that way and so many people have been cited and/or warned at Glamis when caught putting a cap full of gasoline on the wood to get the campfire going.

Do we want zero tolerance?

Think long and hard about that before you answer.

Vicki

[FE135]

No, I don't think I implied I want zero tolerance enforcement. If a cop can't use good judgement nor see the "big picture", then he is worthless. I was more interested in the new law empowerment of the BLM.

[Richard Cheese]

this is my 2 cents

just like the current immigration laws on the books......the speeding in camping areas current law would work fine, IF IT WERE CONSTANTLY ENFORCED

LET it go too long without enforcing it, and there will be problems (we cannot ticket 20,000 people for speeding in a camping area)

I am all for a speed limit on the flats, and also with a law about camping within 25 yds of a dune....that's just common sense...please, roping off a dune for your own personal use? that's gonna get someone killed, if it hasn't already

[dunefreak]

I have suggested this before and I will do it again...even though the BLM will probably never do it.

How about some warnings? Rather than letting it get out of hand and ticketing to the max when they see a camp racer, why not just give him a little scare with a warning?

I think educating the duners in a friendly way goes a hell of a lot farther than just writing tickets. I understand they can't go around giving friendly warnings to each and every person on a holiday weekend when there are more serious things to worry about, but there are also other ideas to let people know that it is a rule in the 1st place. Vegas Style mentioned signs. I think if there were a few more signs up and maybe put that the speed limit is going to be ENFORCED on the flats, that would probably get the point across and more people would start slowing down near camp.

IMO, there needs to be a better way to educate some of the people out there that are unaware of the rules. Not everyone reads online forums or even the info center at the pay station.

Think if there was a big azz sign near the ranger station saying something like, "SPEED LIMIT ENFORCED: 25 mph in camp. $50 fine" or something like that. I gaurantee that parents will put a little fear into their kids before they let them go rippen across the flats on that Banshee. Tell ya what, the parents will think twice about doing it too!

[Don29palms]

All I keep hearing is

[dunefreak]

All I keep hearing is

Then quit crying

[Don29palms]

The fees are to high.

The fees are illegal.

I should get a free pass.

You are killing the lizards and bugs.

You shouldn't be able to camp near the dunes.

There have been some good suggestions made about educating EVERYBODY that enters Dumont. What do we need to do to get some of that put into place? Some signs would be great. Also some training for the LEOs there on how to interact with the people instead of being a$$holes.

We need more good and executable ideas and not and and

OKAY I'm done.

Edited June 8, 2007 by Don29palms

[EY3BA11]

I have suggected this before and I will do it agin...even though the BLM will probably never do it.

How about some warnings? Rather than letting it get out of hand and ticketing to the max when they see a camp racer, why not just give him a little scare with a warning?

I think educating the duners in a friendly way goes a hell of a lot farther than just writing tickets. I understand they can't go around giving friendly warnings to each and every person on a holiday weekend when there are more serious things to worry about, but there are also other ideas to let people know that it is a rule in the 1st place. Vegas Style mentioned signs. I think if there were a few more signs up and maybe put that the speed limit is going to be ENFORCED on the flats, that would probably get the point across and more people would start slowing down near camp.

IMO, there needs to be a better way to educate some of the people out there that are unaware of the rules. Not everyone reads online forums or even the info center at the pay station.

Think if there was a big azz sign near the ranger station saying something like, "SPEED LIMIT ENFORCED: 25 mph in camp. $50 fine" or something like that. I gaurantee that parents will put a little fear into their kids before they let them go rippen across the flats on that Banshee. Tell ya what, the parents will think twice about doing it too!

I like this idea except it doesnt even have to be written just a verbal warning on behalf of the ranger or sherrif on duty.. Im sure enough of that would get the word out that hey maybe they are serious... along with the sign i can see that helping out quite a bit.

[vegas style]

a nice big billboard right at the pay station that says if you want to ride you need to read and understand these things trash helmet flag speed dumping........................

i have camped all my life and the way i have found out the rules of the area is to read the info board or signs that were around the area and a few friendly chats with the rangers. now we know people arent going to drive 2 + hours to get there wait in line at the pay station and then stop and read the fine print. they are going to go balls out to the flats and get unpacked and off they go. lets get the fine print louder and in thier faces while they are on the only road in and out. hard to say i didnt know when there was 12" tall red letters saying read this!!

[FE135]

The fees are to high.

The fees are illegal.

I should get a free pass.

You are killing the lizards and bugs.

You shouldn't be able to camp near the dunes.

There have been some good suggestions made about educating EVERYBODY that enters Dumont. What do we need to do to get some of that put into place? Some signs would be great. Also some training for the LEOs there on how to interact with the people instead of being a$$holes.

We need more good and executable ideas and not and and

OKAY I'm done.

This is your idea of constructive debate and executable ideas? Bashing others opinions? Glad your on our side, I guess.

[Sanduners]

Well I went to the TRT meeting to see if I couldn't get BLM approval for my sign idea. It was mainly shot down by the BLM due to the new road construction so it still might happen. If you would like to see my plan send me an email and I can forward it to you. I'm not going to paste it here. Those that attended the meeting saw the sign I proposed and most thought it would work out fine.

Another thought I had, what if we had a flyer campaign where anyone reading the DDR board could download the latest safety flyer from FODD, print it out, (as many as they wish) then pass them out on their trips. That would cost a big NADA too.

Jim

Sanduners@aol.com

[HI_DESERT_DDR]

I really like the idea of printing off some flyers and handing them out!

[Luvdunes]

I really like the flyer idea and the signs on the way in.

I learned a lot of rules from DDR that we didn't know before and I share them with my family. But like what was stated before not every is on our site, so if we can eduacate people to keep the dunes safer than let's do it.

Just my

[HappyHour]

I personally like the idea of a 25 mph limit on the flats. Too many people go screaming across the flats and come close to hitting others just because they want to go fast across the flats. IMHO if you want to race across flats, go behind the small dunes out by Comp Hill and race to your little hearts content. Personally wether on a big weekend or even an off-weekend, I back her down to about 15 or 20 mph on the flats, and even slower when I get anywhere near a camp. It's not that hard to do.

I'm glad the road will be done by Oct. and also glad the river crossing will be wider by then also. I applaud Terry, Vicki, and everyone else related with FODD for the efforts they make for us at Dumont. :redhat: :dance:

As far as moving Vendor row. I think it is a very good idea to reduce the congestion, especially on the big weekends. But it is going to really stink for those who like camping by the rock pile hill. I hope it works, and I hope it can be resolved.

Other than that and no matter what happens, I will still enjoy Dumont Dunes with my family.

Edited June 9, 2007 by HappyHour

[Don29palms]

This is your idea of constructive debate and executable ideas? Bashing others opinions? Glad your on our side, I guess.

[dunefreak]

That's not very cool. He had a point, Don. This is a discussion where we are trying to constructive. Even stupid ideas sometimes help everyone brainstorm.

Besides, where in this thread did anyone start crying about the fees, lizards/bugs, or camping near the dunes?

[Sanduners]

I really like the flyer idea and the signs on the way in.

I learned a lot of rules from DDR that we didn't know before and I share them with my family. But like what was stated before not every is on our site, so if we can eduacate people to keep the dunes safer than let's do it.

Just my

Exactly, the flyers are easy to do. On the signs, the BLM is planning to install some signs along the road for next season that can be changed (rotated) to a new location to keep it looking different. My sign idea was something that Sandemon suggested years ago, I just put it down on paper... Picture 3 signs (locked down) with short messages along the road in the canyon area spaced out about 50 yards. I thnk people would read them.

Also, the road work to take place will NOT be coming from our user fees, the BLM has money set aside for the rest of the work, we paid for the materials there now, they pay for putting it down RIGHT! (I look forward to a nice road too)

[FE135]

Great, just the autistic response I was expecting.

[SailAway]

I really like the flyer idea and the signs on the way in.

I do too! The brochures are nice but usually they get tucked away and "I'll take a look at that later." But a flyer gives immediate satisfaction.

So... any artistic types out there want to give it a whirl?

What do you want it to have on it? A quick list of rules? Dune ettiquette? BLM contact information?

My personal favorite is a strong push for PACK IT IN PACK IT OUT but what else?

Vicki W.

[dunefreak]

I do too! The brochures are nice but usually they get tucked away and "I'll take a look at that later." But a flyer gives immediate satisfaction.

So... any artistic types out there want to give it a whirl?

What do you want it to have on it? A quick list of rules? Dune ettiquette? BLM contact information?

My personal favorite is a strong push for PACK IT IN PACK IT OUT but what else?

Vicki W.

I'll give it a shot and see if I can whip something up, Vicki. Just let me know what needs to be on it.