Sanduners Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I'm making comments on the BLM Barstow field offices grant proposal. This funding would come from our Green Sticker fund and I don't really see the need, do you? BLM Barstow Field Office ~ Draft OHMVR 2008 Grant ApplicationProject 1: Dumont Fence – 9 Miles Project Type: Development Total Requested: $500,000.00 Project Description: This project would construct about 9 miles of post and cable barrier around portions of the Dumont Dunes OHV Recreation Area boundary. Most visitors come here to enjoy the sand, mounds and mounds of sand. The perimeter fence will have no affect on this legal OHV riding opportunity in the sand. However, public lands closed to motorized use surround the dunes, and illegal intrusions by OHVs are increasing each year. The barrier will help enforce the boundary and prevent illegal riding in closed areas. The closed areas were never open to riding and include wilderness, areas of critical environmental concern, important cultural sites, sensitive biological resources and Death Valley N.P. Impacts caused by the illegal riding have reached a tipping point and action is required. The perimeter barrier is intended to allow the legal OHV riding opportunity to continue, and is a preferred alternative to possible closures and restrictions. http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/ca/p...view_packet.pdf If approved, funded and completed, can you guess where the money will come from in the future to keep it maintained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cheese Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 again...more leos are needed not fences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1BADYFZ Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I see no need for a fence, they only want them so they can keep track of people crossing it and then report that people are not obeying the OHV laws and try to start another lawsuit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Lawsuits have been threatened over the OHV incursions for a long time but we've managed to avoid them so far. One reason we've managed to avoid them is a willingness to seek proactive solutions to a serious problem. At last year's cleanup there was a lot of discussion about these long-closed areas and how to properly police them. Is the answer more law enforcement officers? If so, it would take another fee increase so would we prefer to raise our fees to pay them to babysit the boundaries or would we rather use the money elsewhere... or if we decide it's okay to raise fees for more officers, would the Dumont community prefer that they focus on camp racers and DUIs or closure boundaries? Or should we wait and use the money for fighting the inevitable lawsuit that will be filed with continued incursions, not to mention the potential for additional closures disguised as buffer zones. There has to be a solution here and it would be GREAT to get some community input on this. Fences? Police? Volunteer patrols? There is no denying that these boundaries must be respected and there is solid proof that they are not being respected. So now what? VickiW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanduners Posted August 29, 2007 Author Share Posted August 29, 2007 I'll say this over and over... EDUCATION is the key! If those that recreate at the dunes KNOW how important it is to keep out of those areas, I believe the majority of OHV incursions would stop. There is but ONE road that leads into Dumont and groups like FoDD should be focusing their efforts on educating the users in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamrr Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 That's exactly what they need to spend a half a million dollars on, a fuggin fence. Morons...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 The only place I want to see a fence is at the Mexican border!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I'll say this over and over... EDUCATION is the key! If those that recreate at the dunes KNOW how important it is to keep out of those areas, I believe the majority of OHV incursions would stop. There is but ONE road that leads into Dumont and groups like FoDD should be focusing their efforts on educating the users in my opinion. Education is and always will be the key. If it was the only cure, there would be no trash at Glamis. Look at it another way... if all it took was education, there would be no seat-belt related deaths anymore. Is there one person with a driver's license who doesn't know it's against the law to drink and drive? My point is education is essential to our sport but when it is not enough, what then? We can't bury our heads and pretend this isn't a problem. Sound bites won't fix it. VickiW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cheese Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 i say put me in charge of state welfare fraud...and then use the money as we see fit @ the D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Cheese Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 volunteer officers are a great idea...i would be willing to do that for like a half day or more every time I went Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I'd love to do that too!!! Me with my attitude!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandBox_Kid Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Education is the key. As long as I have been going to Dumont I still have no clue as to where the boundaries are....... Anyone wanna help me out and show me that info? Is there a map? Is it available to me? I would like to be more responsible....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90+ PLUS Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~JILL~ Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) I'd love to do that too!!! Me with my attitude!!!! I'm afraid !!!!!!!!! Git em Craig Edited August 29, 2007 by BALL-N-CHAIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1BADYFZ Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 YOU CAN HAVE 20 IDIOT"S RIDING BIKES THRU A MAJOR(BALTIMORE) CITY WITH NO POLICE AROUND AND THEY GET AWAY WITH IT.. THEN YOU HAVE US MEN AND GAL'S WHO LOVE TO RIDE IN A OHV AREA ESPECIALLY FOR US AND THEY WANT TO PUT UP A FENCE SO WE DONT RIDE ON DIRT THAT NOBODY HAS RIDDEN ON IN 50+ YEARS .. YEA MAKE'S A WHOLE LOTTA SENSE TO ME........ P.S A FENCE AINT GOING TO DO sh*t, THEY WIL GO AROUND IT IF THEY WANT TO BREAK THE LAW, LIKE SAID BEFORE WE NEED TO EDUCATE SO THEY KNOW WHY NOT TO RIDE THERE, I HAVE GONE AND CLIMBED MANY FENCE'S TO GET TO SOMEWHERE I NEEEDED TO GO FENCE OR NO FENCE.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BudlightBob Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Are they going to finish the road first? Is the fence going to look like the road when they are done? Hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 AND THEY WANT TO PUT UP A FENCE SO WE DONT RIDE ON DIRT THAT NOBODY HAS RIDDEN ON IN 50+ YEARS .. Well, unfortunately the problem is that people have been riding in it and it's putting the rest of the open area at risk. We can either pretend it's not a problem and leave all the decisions to the BLM, or put the community to action and come up with our own ideas. I'm not saying a fence is the best way to go... but it is one possible solution to a real problem. YEA MAKE'S A WHOLE LOTTA SENSE TO ME........ P.S A FENCE AINT GOING TO DO sh*t, THEY WIL GO AROUND IT IF THEY WANT TO BREAK THE LAW, LIKE SAID BEFORE WE NEED TO EDUCATE SO THEY KNOW WHY NOT TO RIDE THERE, I HAVE GONE AND CLIMBED MANY FENCE'S TO GET TO SOMEWHERE I NEEEDED TO GO FENCE OR NO FENCE.. I'm guessing that you knew before you hopped that fence that you shouldn't be hopping that fence so even with that education you made the decision to ignore the reasoning and the fencing and violated the space anyway. I expect we'll have the same situation at Dumont no matter which way it ends up, fence or no fence. But let's say NO FENCE for right now. What are the other solutions? How else can we guaranty that those boundaries will be respected? VickiW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandBox_Kid Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 What are the other solutions? How else can we guaranty that those boundaries will be respected? How about some info as to where the boundaries are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kens Colors Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 How about some info as to where the boundaries are? Yea if it(the fence) shows the boundries it should not bother any of us. I have ridden every direction out there and sometimes I find boundry markers most the time not. If the fence let's me know I am at the edge of a legal riding area, I WILL turn around at that point period. No complaints from me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Excellent idea, and that info is already included in the packet FoDD will be handing out at the SSSS this year. Let's look at that idea instead of fencing. Printing of materials... the cost could be covered with an OHMVR grant, at least the printing of the materials. But what about handing them out? The Glamis ranger station used to have maps available showing the lawsuit closures but they never handed them out to cars coming and going at any of the primary entry points. What would be the ongoing cost to have someone available to hand out the information? Certainly $500,000 would more than cover a full time salaried person dedicated to the task. So then we are only left with having to consider the effectiveness of the action. It would be interesting to see how effective education versus physical barrier has been in other instances. VickiW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandBox_Kid Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Excellent idea, and that info is already included in the packet FoDD will be handing out at the SSSS this year. Is it possible to post an electronic copy here for those of us who won't be making it to the SSSS? That and we could always print our own in an effort to educate those that we ride with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerhouse Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 I'd love to do that too!!! Me with my attitude!!!! :mic: oh ,he!! yes , me and craig on the border patrol !!!!!!!!!! where do i sign up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SailAway Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 (edited) Is it possible to post an electronic copy here for those of us who won't be making it to the SSSS? That and we could always print our own in an effort to educate those that we ride with. You bet, after it's been completely reviewed and approved by the BOD of FoDD, which will not be until just before we're ready to send it to print. While we're on the subject, we're also putting together a FAQ page for Dumont and Friends of Dumont Dunes... I should probably start a new thread for this but we are looking for suggestions for that too. VickiW Edited August 29, 2007 by SailAway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1BADYFZ Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 Well, unfortunately the problem is that people have been riding in it and it's putting the rest of the open area at risk. We can either pretend it's not a problem and leave all the decisions to the BLM, or put the community to action and come up with our own ideas. I'm not saying a fence is the best way to go... but it is one possible solution to a real problem. YEA MAKE'S A WHOLE LOTTA SENSE TO ME........ I'm guessing that you knew before you hopped that fence that you shouldn't be hopping that fence so even with that education you made the decision to ignore the reasoning and the fencing and violated the space anyway. I expect we'll have the same situation at Dumont no matter which way it ends up, fence or no fence. But let's say NO FENCE for right now. What are the other solutions? How else can we guaranty that those boundaries will be respected? VickiW Yea that's exactly what i am saying, if they want to cross it then they will and then there goes that million dollars we paid for it to work going to waste...At the least maybe we can educate them about it and hopefully to my knowledge im hoping there are not too many LAw breakers in the first place and hope all will try to obey.. And first off who is so worried about that land and the illegal walking or riding in those closed areas? I think they are the problem worrying about that stuff, hell of alot of other things to worry about.. And is there a REAL problem going on there with some people going out to the OFF LIMIT area's in the first place, or another tree hugger trying to limit our riding area again? Who keeps proposing this stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quad~dizzle Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 how about putting a boundry map on the back of passes and at the little info area by the pay station for the education part then maybe a that will help with cutting the cost by putting boundry markers every so often instead of a fence. i think if people are aware of the boundries hopefully the would stay out also others might see them "out of bounds" and help educate them. i know i would i'd hate to have my dunes closed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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