Big Fella Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 All of this complaining reminds me somewhat of the health care system in this country. Where I grew up (Canada) we all pay a little more in taxes....and I mean just a little more. And you know who benefits form that little extra? Everyone!!! When your kid gets really sick and NEEDS to see a doctor....everyone pays for it. When you step off a curb the wrong way and break your ankle and NEED to see a doctor....everyone pays for it. So I ask the people who complain or wonder what we pay for at the dunes a question or two.... If a random child was run over by some machine at Dumont and NEEDED immediate medical attention and had to be flown out on a helicopter to save his/her life would you chip in $40 to make sure that happened? If you or someone else were being harrassed all day and night by some drunk or drunks and had someone there to help you rid of them legally would you pay for that? I have never read up on what exactly the BLM and the people being payed out there do for us. I don't have to. I see it. It's common sense. They are out there to MAKE SURE *EVERYONE* (not just you) has a fun and safe time. Regardless of whether they help you directly I can guarantee they are making someones stay a little better. And I will gladly pay for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 (edited) You see thats the misconception. The state of california is there to collect revenue, that dont care if they save any lives, or make anyones day better. Sure it might happen, purely by accident, but the reason they are there is to collect money. The health care system in the us, is the same way, the fact that people do get better is not a result of the system, its a side benefit of it, the health care system is there to make money not lives better. Just like the CHPand NHP. They are there to make money first, not solve problems or make live better. They do, but that wasnt the objective. btw, when was the last time you paid taxes in canada? I have friends that live there and pay in the order of 50% of there income to taxes. That imo is more then alittle more. Edited February 25, 2008 by 1320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fella Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Because I have investments there I pay taxes there every year. If your friend is paying %50 in taxes then he might want to get some help by someone or someone else when filing. That is ridiculously high. I have never paid even close to that. Anyway back to the topic. I do agree with you about our health care system here. They are in it to make money....absolutley.....millions and millions of it. As far as Dumont and the state of California I also agree they are probably making money. How much I don't know (guessing not much from what I have briefly read about the BLM's expenses out there) but maybe they should make some money. I mean they are providing services for us are they not? Grated road, watered road, toilets, law enforcement and imo most importantly medical services. Everything in this world now days is about business. So when you say they're in it to make money first......name one person or business in this day and age then doesn't have that attitude. I'm guessing there are very few. They own that land don't they?? Maybe I'm wrong and they don't?? If someone on here knows how much money the BLM is making from us can you let me know. If they're making millions then I might start complaining too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rhino Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 (edited) Big Fella You hit it right on the head on your first post! They are not making any money, and if they do they put it back into Dumont (roads etc). Welcome to DDR! :mischevious: Edited February 25, 2008 by Paul Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fella Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Thanks Paul Rob. When it comes down to it for $40/Rig my friends and family know we'll have a great time. I spend more than that for a movie I may or may not like. All the while some movie star is making millions for a couple months of work. But man do we love those movie stars!! I don't think any of those movie stars are going to help my kid when she's choking on her popcorn....ok i'm getting stupid now. You get my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) Dont get me wrong, Im not really complaining about the fees, but the ethics surrounding the fees. I do appreciate everything they have done, but misuse of funds is rampant in any goverment. Like who will decide how long each of there sand cars will be in service? Then who will buy brand new cars? and who will get the "old" cars that are no longer fit for service because some hr counter tripped 1000 hrs? Same goes for everything else? quads, bikes, water truck etc...who will determine what new equipment to buy and at what price? A fair price? What about the idea that they are so worried about missing revenue that they will check for missed revenue when you leave also? But nt spend that man power in the dunes helping make it safer? If safety was any concern at all, they would inspect peoples rides, and have standards to abide buy in construction and use of safety equipment, like every other form of motorsports. ethics in question: 1. safety of cars / quads/ bikes, and safety equipment use 2. why NOT a day pass? Because of MONEY. 3. why the OHV permit at all? Did the vehicle get inspected? no.., what did the permit accomplish? nothing but money. Its not a lot but I paid 120 for my yearly pass, 150 in ohv permits, and I can only take my tow vehicle in ? What is there a lack of room? Why can t my pass cover my family? the answer...money. thats only 270$, but thats 270 bucks , and if I ever need the helicopter Im paying for it seperately, if I need medical attention, chances are greater that a by stander will provide then one of the medical professionls there. Ofcourse I would take either in the time of need. Edited February 26, 2008 by 1320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Big Fella you are correct and I agree with you, BUT did we really need ANOTHER thread about this? :surrender: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Rhino Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 DAMN I just noticed your avatar Big Fella How friggen tall are you? you are def a BIG FELLAH! :surrender: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fella Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 Dunefreak....no we probably didn't need another thread about this. I'm new to this stuff and it was just one thing that I noticed alot of. And one that I had a strong opinion on. I did read somewhere on this site that most of the people that complain don't actually do anything about it. They just complain on here. If they feel so strongly about it find a way to make a difference....if at all possible, with the right people. I know this has probably been talked about as well so I'll shut my trap now. Paul Rob........Big Enough!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Dunefreak....no we probably didn't need another thread about this. I'm new to this stuff and it was just one thing that I noticed alot of. And one that I had a strong opinion on. I did read somewhere on this site that most of the people that complain don't actually do anything about it. They just complain on here. If they feel so strongly about it find a way to make a difference....if at all possible, with the right people. I know this has probably been talked about as well so I'll shut my trap now. Paul Rob........Big Enough!! Not a problem, bud. I completely agree. :surrender: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8rail Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) You see thats the misconception. The state of california is there to collect revenue, that dont care if they save any lives, or make anyones day better. Sure it might happen, purely by accident, but the reason they are there is to collect money. That's the misconception right there I was fighting the fees hard and long (during the time I was heading Friends of Dumont Dunes) - BLM will still not break even at Dumont - regulations (and environmental issues) make places like Dumont that expensive - BLM would have agreed to outsource collection to a group like FoDD. It just did not happen because FoDD never got big enough. - etc but rather complaining, why not start to be proactive : -for example there will be a need to do fences. Think about it, how much will it cost when the government is doing it? compare that to what it would cost when DDR and FoDD would do it :surrender: ... too big of a task ? I don't think so. Friends of El Mirage did it with their area -or FoDD (or I think even DDR) could try to get a grant for a watertruck. There would be much more we could do, like second cleanup, maps (with the dirt routes ?!) down to operating BLM equipment and much much more just my 2 cents founder and ex pres of FoDD Edited February 26, 2008 by v8rail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EY3BA11 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Dunefreak....no we probably didn't need another thread about this. I'm new to this stuff and it was just one thing that I noticed alot of. And one that I had a strong opinion on. I did read somewhere on this site that most of the people that complain don't actually do anything about it. They just complain on here. If they feel so strongly about it find a way to make a difference....if at all possible, with the right people. I know this has probably been talked about as well so I'll shut my trap now. Paul Rob........Big Enough!! Try being a moderator and having to read all of that crap... sometimes we joke about just shutting the site down for a few days to relax LOL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fella Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 If only everyone was proactive. Just imagine what so many people with a common passion (the dunes) could do if they would just stop expecting everything to BE perfect and do something about it. How many people do you think go out on a ride and throw their trash in the sand? I would guess about the same amount that expect riding out there to be free. I have just recently started going out to Dumont and absolutely love it. I think of the thousands of us that also love it we need to do our part to keep this place as pristine as possible. There's always going to be idiots that will take advantage of it. There's no getting around that. But for us non idiots lets pick up their slack. Isn't that how this world works??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Try being a moderator and having to read all of that crap... sometimes we joke about just shutting the site down for a few days to relax LOL.. If only everyone was proactive. Just imagine what so many people with a common passion (the dunes) could do if they would just stop expecting everything to BE perfect and do something about it. How many people do you think go out on a ride and throw their trash in the sand? I would guess about the same amount that expect riding out there to be free. I have just recently started going out to Dumont and absolutely love it. I think of the thousands of us that also love it we need to do our part to keep this place as pristine as possible. There's always going to be idiots that will take advantage of it. There's no getting around that. But for us non idiots lets pick up their slack. Isn't that how this world works??? I like your attitude, Big Fella. I used to b*tch and complain like alot of the people that do on this site. (well...maybe not nearly as much, but it was still complaining :surrender: ) Over the past few years, I have done exactly what you said and have been proactive about certains things that I think need attention. I try and think of ways to improve things rather than b*tch about it. Luckily I help run a certain website where I can try to send a positive message across to duners that frequent Dumont Dunes to do things like pickup after themselves and be courteous to each other. In the past, we have even organized voluntary mini-cleanups of the comp hill area on big weekends. We have kinda slacked the last few trips, but it definitely has helped when we did it and hopefully it put the thought into on-lookers that watched us pickup their trash. Maybe next time they will pick up their trash and MAYBE , just MAYBE grab a trash bag and help us out as well. It's more things like this that we, as a group that care, need to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If only everyone was proactive. Just imagine what so many people with a common passion (the dunes) could do if they would just stop expecting everything to BE perfect and do something about it. How many people do you think go out on a ride and throw their trash in the sand? I would guess about the same amount that expect riding out there to be free. I have just recently started going out to Dumont and absolutely love it. I think of the thousands of us that also love it we need to do our part to keep this place as pristine as possible. There's always going to be idiots that will take advantage of it. There's no getting around that. But for us non idiots lets pick up their slack. Isn't that how this world works??? But many never asked for it to be PERFECT, we liked it the way IT WAS. Be proactive? in california state government? You are kidding right? How can all this money be collected, and still be a loss? Or rather how was it not ruin in the previous 30-40 50 years of use , with no fees, and virtually no state support? If it was truely a loss, wouldnt it make fiscal sence to pull out and make it just like it was for so many years? How do they determine a loss? Do the count the cost of vehicles? or depreciate them for 5 years or 10 or what? They can pay people to check you on your way out, to see if you paid on your way in, but they cant come up with a few 8 ft steel bars and maybe some wire mesh to cver the open mines in the area? That are state historical sites? Shouldnt the blm area manager be fired? They will pay someone to collect fees but not protect them from death if they fall in a hole? That obviously in any state would result in a multi million dollar settlement from a day one attourney. Thats typical california state government at work, complete and udder failure. Its so messed up , that with out question the only proactive thing to do is over throw the gorvernment and start over. I think a similar thing happened around 225 years ago. that worked for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 But many never asked for it to be PERFECT, we liked it the way IT WAS. Be proactive? in california state government? You are kidding right? How can all this money be collected, and still be a loss? Or rather how was it not ruin in the previous 30-40 50 years of use , with no fees, and virtually no state support? If it was truely a loss, wouldnt it make fiscal sence to pull out and make it just like it was for so many years? How do they determine a loss? Do the count the cost of vehicles? or depreciate them for 5 years or 10 or what? They can pay people to check you on your way out, to see if you paid on your way in, but they cant come up with a few 8 ft steel bars and maybe some wire mesh to cver the open mines in the area? That are state historical sites? Shouldnt the blm area manager be fired? They will pay someone to collect fees but not protect them from death if they fall in a hole? That obviously in any state would result in a multi million dollar settlement from a day one attourney. Thats typical california state government at work, complete and udder failure. Its so messed up , that with out question the only proactive thing to do is over throw the gorvernment and start over. I think a similar thing happened around 225 years ago. that worked for awhile. Jon, have you informed the BLM of this problem with the open mines? Maybe it should be brought up at the next TRT meeting? It seems like an easy fix and something the BLM Maintenance would probably take care of if brought to their attention. Or we could just keep bitching about it on this forum and hope they do something about it. :eatdrink021: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsky70 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) I'll bring it up, the one's I've seen are marked off or covered. I was always taught not to go in something I know nothing about. Big enough to explore, off road/dune, shouldn't complain if you wonder into a mine 150 years old and something happens. If you do explore always good to have some training. Maybe we can get the BLM to fix that problem....SF Woody :eatdrink021: Please remember to bring it up in the next TRT Thread for a reminder, just in case I've forgotten... Edited February 26, 2008 by wsky70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandBox_Kid Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 An exact location of the open mines would be helpful in your cause also. It's one thing to bring it up....it's another to provide them with locations and possibly even pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8rail Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 But many never asked for it to be PERFECT, we liked it the way IT WAS. Be proactive? in california state government? You are kidding right? How can all this money be collected, and still be a loss? Or rather how was it not ruin in the previous 30-40 50 years of use , with no fees, and virtually no state support? If it was truely a loss, wouldnt it make fiscal sence to pull out and make it just like it was for so many years? How do they determine a loss? Do the count the cost of vehicles? or depreciate them for 5 years or 10 or what? They can pay people to check you on your way out, to see if you paid on your way in, but they cant come up with a few 8 ft steel bars and maybe some wire mesh to cver the open mines in the area? That are state historical sites? Shouldnt the blm area manager be fired? They will pay someone to collect fees but not protect them from death if they fall in a hole? That obviously in any state would result in a multi million dollar settlement from a day one attourney. Thats typical california state government at work, complete and udder failure. Its so messed up , that with out question the only proactive thing to do is over throw the gorvernment and start over. I think a similar thing happened around 225 years ago. that worked for awhile. easy answer : 20 years ago : - nobody cared about dust. Today when there is nothing done to the road, Dumont will be closed soon - was no Kingston Range Wilderness, nobody cared about use of the existing roads there and the dune extension out to Val Jean - much less people out there (look how the california high desert and las vegas area have grown=> more people there => more people out in the dunes - more people => more law enforcement - BLM got funds from the green sticker program and was federally sound financed. Compare what BLM gets today to run Dumont to what the NPS service gets for a couple hundred hikers at Kelso :eatdrink021: -etc but final misconception. BLM is federal. So the fees get not touched by California government .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 who pays for the chp? the rangers? the medical? the filght for life ? the water truck? the bathrooms? Why the ohv permit? What does it accomplish? were does that money go? Were does the entry fees collected go? Who paid for the sheriffs equipment? sandrails? quads etc? And, were do you think California learned how to be unethical and filled with buercratic red tape? am/pm or the federal level? LOL I think its funny that everyone says....they do it for our safety but then its obvious that our safety is way down the line in there things to care about, but you still defend them. BTW, the open mines are on the walking path, that you can not walk into, they go straight down, 100+ feet who knows. The path that is the historial marker path for mining from the 1800's....that hundred of people use every big weekend. Dont tell me you go to dumont and have never ventured outside the sand? They are south - eeast to the dunes, on your way to the small dunes. Yes, I stopped and told a sheriff that was sittng in the flats, in the middle of no where, with nary a soul around (good use of his time) and told him, he already new, they have been like that for years. There ar about 5 of them....10 ft by 10 ft, with a metal gate, with about 12 inch spacing, and some of those are missing, so you can easily walk right in an fall 100+ feet and die ofcourse.....but I need someone to stop me on the way out to see if I paid to get in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandSoulja Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 agreed 1320. I would actually not mind paying if I thought our money was being used to its FULL potential. But its not. we should each be paying 15 bucks or even 10 or 5, not 40. but blah blah. I don't have the energy to go to the TRT meetings and get all "homeowners association" on everybody. so i'll just shut up about it. I love going to dumont and I love hanging out with cool people out there...I just wish we weren't getting ripped off...thats all. I'm getting pumped about easter!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8rail Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 who pays for the chp? the rangers? the medical? the filght for life ? the water truck? the bathrooms? chp not BLM (don't know it is still the same, but BLM never paid chp for the plane at big weekends ; BLM; BLM; not BLM; BLM, but again without water truck => no Dumont; bathrooms was not paid by any user fee, green sticker fee or BLM money Why the ohv permit? What does it accomplish? were does that money go? there you have your problem. BLM does not get the money. That's partially why we got a fee out at Dumont Were does the entry fees collected go? call BLM, they will tell you Who paid for the sheriffs equipment? sandrails? quads etc? who pays for your local sheriff ? and his car? there you have your answer And, were do you think California learned how to be unethical and filled with buercratic red tape? am/pm or the federal level? LOL don't know what you want to say here I think its funny that everyone says....they do it for our safety but then its obvious that our safety is way down the line in there things to care about, but you still defend them. you still not get it. There is no way Dumont can stay open without the things BLM does... and that costs $$$$$$ You can help the BLM making Dumont cheaper. But for that you need to stop complaining and start doing something for Dumont. FoDD is all the time in need of volunteers. BTW sure I would be nice to have to turn the time back. just ten years ago off weekends was max 3 camps. I miss the sharp razors everywhere, smooth comp, smooth superbowl, no tracks out on the racetrack ... but get real . the treehuggers would have a field day BTW, the open mines are on the walking path, that you can not walk into, they go straight down, 100+ feet who knows. The path that is the historial marker path for mining from the 1800's....that hundred of people use every big weekend. Dont tell me you go to dumont and have never ventured outside the sand? They are south - eeast to the dunes, on your way to the small dunes. Yes, I stopped and told a sheriff that was sittng in the flats, in the middle of no where, with nary a soul around (good use of his time) and told him, he already new, they have been like that for years. There ar about 5 of them....10 ft by 10 ft, with a metal gate, with about 12 inch spacing, and some of those are missing, so you can easily walk right in an fall 100+ feet and die ofcourse.....but I need someone to stop me on the way out to see if I paid to get in? Was many times there. IMHO plenty enough signs, fenced and clearly outside the OHV area. Don't see why we should pay for it with our fee money that is collected for Dumont OHV area. That would be missuse of our money And Liberty, you are just wrong comparing TRT with a HOA. But believe me, I know why ISBB and Pete are making this comments. It is much easier to complain then actually doing something. And the complaining, specially the kind based on wrong assumption, gets old very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Thank you for your input, Thomas (v8rail). It is nice to see some people understand how the system actually works and that we need to be proactive about things out there to keep things moving forward in our favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandSoulja Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 yeah,I wasn't comparing the two... Thanks for punching me in the face though...member how i said I'll "just shut up about it? pumped, easter, hanging out, cool people?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunefreak Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 yeah,I wasn't comparing the two... Thanks for punching me in the face though...member how i said I'll "just shut up about it? pumped, easter, hanging out, cool people?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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