grant money

[dunefreak]

I read this article about how the Barstow sherrif's station (not the BLM) will be receiving $97,000 for 2 new dual sport bikes, a Chevy Tahoe, and a Rhino to "enforce off-highway vehicle rules". BTW, this is NOT money from your Dumont entrance fees. It is state money from registration fees for OHV's.

I don't mean to start another about how our fee money is spent because this is different since it is state money, not user fees. My question is, rather, why doesn't Dumont (or the Barstow BLM) get grant money like this? Also why don't they (the state of CA) use the money for more rescue vehicles instead? Seems like money better spent to me. You guys remember this thread right?--> click

I just don't get it. Dumont gets it's funding cut, but then they (state of CA) go and give all that grant money to the Sherrif's department to buy those vehicles to patrol areas and write tickets.

Off-road vehicle enforcement gets a boost with grant funds

Comments 0 | Recommend 1

March 20, 2008 - 6:16PM

By Abby Sewell, staff writer

BARSTOW - There will soon be two more motorcycles on the road, or off the road, around Barstow patrolling the areas frequented by off-highway vehicle riders.

The San Bernardino County Board of Supervisors agreed Tuesday to distribute $226,000 in grant funds from the State Department of Parks and Recreation to the Barstow and Victorville sheriff's stations to enforce off-highway vehicle rules.

The county is making OHV enforcement a priority, according to David Zook, a spokesman for County Supervisor Brad Mitzelfelt, for reasons ranging from environmental impacts to noise concerns and issues with off-roaders trespassing on private property. In the first two months of 2008, county code enforcement officers had more than 6,500 contacts with OHV riders, issued 129 warning citations and 109 court citations, Zook said.

"Off-roading is a popular activity here in the desert, and we welcome responsible off-road use," he said. "But unfortunately there are some people that are irresponsible in their off-roading and operate off-highway vehicles in areas that are inappropriate."

The $97,000 in funding earmarked for the Barstow sheriff's station will go to purchase two new dual-sport motorcycles, bikes that can ride both on- and off-road, Sgt. Robbie Ciolli said. The new bikes will join a new Chevrolet Tahoe truck, Rhino trail utility vehicle and 46-foot command post that are coming to the department to join its roster of OHV enforcement equipment.

The grant funding, which comes through a fund created by OHV registration fees, is essential for law enforcement to be able to conduct OHV patrols, Ciolli said.

"Otherwise, the county doesn't give us enough money to go beyond normal patrols," he said.

For the most part, Ciolli said, off-roaders are just out having a good time and following the laws, but problems can arise, particularly when alcohol is involved. He estimated that the Dumont Dunes Off-Highway Vehicle Area saw 15 or more serious injury crashes in the past year. In a month, Ciolli said, Barstow deputies handed out about five citations to off-roaders.

"We have a lot more contacts than that, but we try to maintain good public relations, so usually we'll just issue a warning," he said. "But if we see someone destroying the neighborhood, they're probably going to get a ticket."

In the outlying areas around Barstow, multiple people have complained about off-roaders creating a nuisance through noise and failure to obey traffic laws, he said.

"In the Lenwood and Grandview area, citizens are getting tired of guys riding their dirt bikes down the street, popping wheelies and stuff," he said.

Some of those offenders can expect a ticket once the new motorcycles arrive at the sheriff's station.

Brian Lynn, who owns the Slash X Cafe, a popular hangout spot for off-roaders visiting the Stoddard Valley Off-Highway Vehicle Area, said he thinks enforcement of the OHV laws is generally fair. The most common complaint Lynn hears from riders, he said, is that the boundaries of public and private land are unclear. Some private areas where OHV riders used to camp and ride regularly are now being patrolled, leading some off-roaders to complain that the area available to them is shrinking.

"When they come to me, the biggest deal is where does the OHV land start - where is it legal and where is it not?" he said.

That may explain why County Code Enforcement Chief Randy Rogers said the most common complaint his officers deal with is off-roaders straying from permitted public riding areas onto private property.

"Most of the stuff we're seeing is people from out of town coming up that aren't familiar with the area that believe it's open desert, and it should be free to ride on," he said.

Under the county's off-highway vehicle ordinance passed in 2006, riding on private property, riding without a permit or disturbing nearby residents with excessive noise, dust, smoke or fumes, are violations that carry a fine of up to $200 on the first offense. On a fourth offense, violators can face misdemeanor charges and up to $1,000 in fines and 90 days in jail.

http://www.desertdispatch.com/news/ohv_287...nforcement.html

[Richard Cheese]

obviously....the BLM in Barstow didn't slip the right amount of money to some elected official....its the freekin state of CA........

[wsky70]

Bring this up as well at the TRT.... Who knows, maybe were gonna get some this time around...SF Woody :shocked2:

[ynot]

Due to the changes in the way Ca. funded the OHV money this year grants are available again. I believe Roxie has applied for several. Last year there were no grant OHV funds available.

[motoxman30]

u must understand that only a small percent of this money goes towards dumont

otherwise we woulda seen massive improvements...the road would be completed for one

+ for all the people who dont pay the ambulance for takin them into baker....some of the money goes there

it can get up to $1000 for a ride into baker and some dont pay for it

there are also major taxes for everything...thats probably where the BLM sends all the money...to the state

as if the state didnt have enough money i heard $1.50 of the price per gallon of gas is taxes :shocked2:

if we owned the land...it would be $10 for a day and $50 for a season

do u know how much money they rack in on a big weekend at these prices

around $100,000...annually its like$1,000,000

then theres the ranger fee and medical

where does it go??

[dunefreak]

u must understand that only a small percent of this money goes towards dumont

otherwise we woulda seen massive improvements...the road would be completed for one

+ for all the people who dont pay the ambulance for takin them into baker....some of the money goes there

it can get up to $1000 for a ride into baker and some dont pay for it

there are also major taxes for everything...thats probably where the BLM sends all the money...to the state

as if the state didnt have enough money i heard $1.50 of the price per gallon of gas is taxes

if we owned the land...it would be $10 for a day and $50 for a season

do u know how much money they rack in on a big weekend at these prices

around $100,000...annually its like$1,000,000

then theres the ranger fee and medical

where does it go??

What money are you talking about? This thread isn't about Dumont user fee money. Its about state grants that get distributed to the state's entities. NONE of this grant money that I am talking about gets used for Dumont. Maybe just maybe the CA Sherrif's dept might use that new Tahoe to come out on a big weekend at Dumont to help patrol, but none of the vehicles purchased nor the command post is used for Dumont. It is for areas like Stoddard Wells and other places.

And as for the money that is taken in, I have no clue where you are getting your figures from. 1 million dollars annually from Dumont user fees?? Take at look at the figures from 06/07. You will see that there was no where near 1 million dollars collected. That is for another thread though. :shocked2:

[raspadoo]

Read closley, is that 97K for just the 2 dual sport bikes??? :shocked2:

[dunefreak]

Read closley, is that 97K for just the 2 dual sport bikes???

The way it is worded, yes it sounds like it. I think they meant the 97K was also for the "Chevrolet Tahoe truck, Rhino trail utility vehicle and 46-foot command post". They didn't write that too well....unless they really DID spend that much on 2 badass bikes. :shocked2: Can you even spend that much on 2 bikes?

[SandBox_Kid]

there are also major taxes for everything...thats probably where the BLM sends all the money...to the state

as if the state didnt have enough money i heard $1.50 of the price per gallon of gas is taxes

I know this is :shocked2: ....but just so you know: Government entities don't pay taxes.

[motoxman30]

what would we need the grants for??

doesnt dumont have everything it needs??

they never needed bathrooms or a graded road...if people could get there in the 80s with the small engine blocks they had then so could we with the bigger engines and better suspension

if we keep adding things more and more people will come out and ur afternoon ride will be reduced to 5 mph

pretty soon its gonna be all futuristic where the dunes have lights on em for night time and the laws and regulations will restrict ur access and how many people are allowed in

there is a ski resort that after a few years everyone started hearing about it...it became too overpopulated so they had to turn people away...wut happens t dumont if it gets overpopulated...thats 5 hours back to my house.

im just speculating here but if u here about this again think what might happen in the future...like unfold the playing field a bit...im not trying to start anything or be mean but its crazy the kind of stuff u come up with when u speculate

do we want a futuristic and easy access dumont with possible unfair regulations

Or do we want a simple place where in 20 years when everyones riding hover bikes we are still reppin the bikes on wheels.

i know some of u are gonna say :shocked2: but think about it

[SandBox_Kid]

if we keep adding things more and more people will come out and ur afternoon ride will be reduced to 5 mph

pretty soon its gonna be all futuristic where the dunes have lights on em for night time and the laws and regulations will restrict ur access and how many people are allowed in

there is a ski resort that after a few years everyone started hearing about it...it became too overpopulated so they had to turn people away...wut happens t dumont if it gets overpopulated...thats 5 hours back to my house. :shocked2:

im just speculating here but if u here about this again think what might happen in the future...like unfold the playing field a bit...im not trying to start anything or be mean but its crazy the kind of stuff u come up with when u speculate

Do some research. Pismo is already there and they have what's called "a reservation system."

[1320]

The how fees were spent and what fees were collected make zero sence.

398K collected? If they average only 20$ per visit on average (including yearly pass holders) thats only 19917.57 visitors.....

Do you really think they only had 20k rigs pull in there in the year? Or are you guys averaging way more visits then I am? I figured I spent 120$ for the year, and those people average 6 trips, so 20$ a trip, plus all the day trippers...... How many day passes were sold? How many yearly passes were sold? Why wouldnt they offer that in that break down? "fees collected" = 398......that good book keeping.

What about fines? Are fines collected at dumont for dumont enfractions, dumont money? Or is it shuffled off somewhere else? It seems like they would fall under the term "fee collected"

and how do volunteers get money?

The odd parts is, this is the easy argument, then we can get into how they spent the money.

[dunefreak]

what would we need the grants for??

doesnt dumont have everything it needs??

they never needed bathrooms or a graded road...if people could get there in the 80s with the small engine blocks they had then so could we with the bigger engines and better suspension

if we keep adding things more and more people will come out and ur afternoon ride will be reduced to 5 mph

pretty soon its gonna be all futuristic where the dunes have lights on em for night time and the laws and regulations will restrict ur access and how many people are allowed in

there is a ski resort that after a few years everyone started hearing about it...it became too overpopulated so they had to turn people away...wut happens t dumont if it gets overpopulated...thats 5 hours back to my house.

im just speculating here but if u here about this again think what might happen in the future...like unfold the playing field a bit...im not trying to start anything or be mean but its crazy the kind of stuff u come up with when u speculate

do we want a futuristic and easy access dumont with possible unfair regulations

Or do we want a simple place where in 20 years when everyones riding hover bikes we are still reppin the bikes on wheels.

i know some of u are gonna say but think about it

What would we need the grants for? I'll tell you what for. So our user fees don't keep going up and up or for better rescue vehicles and equipment. I have no problem paying for the use of Dumont, but when the grants were cut last year WE payed the difference. Again, I don't mind paying it, but when the sate of California uses grant money like this (for new dirtbikes, a Rhino, a Tahoe, and a commant post) only to PATROL more in other areas, it just seems like money spent foolishly.

You seem to be missing my point of this topic. :beer_bang:

[dunefreak]

The how fees were spent and what fees were collected make zero sence.

398K collected? If they average only 20$ per visit on average (including yearly pass holders) thats only 19917.57 visitors.....

Do you really think they only had 20k rigs pull in there in the year? Or are you guys averaging way more visits then I am? I figured I spent 120$ for the year, and those people average 6 trips, so 20$ a trip, plus all the day trippers...... How many day passes were sold? How many yearly passes were sold? Why wouldnt they offer that in that break down? "fees collected" = 398......that good book keeping.

What about fines? Are fines collected at dumont for dumont enfractions, dumont money? Or is it shuffled off somewhere else? It seems like they would fall under the term "fee collected"

and how do volunteers get money?

The odd parts is, this is the easy argument, then we can get into how they spent the money.

Sounds like you are one of those who believe that there is a fee money conspiracy.

Lynnette, of the BLM, explained this in detail back at a TRT meeting. Whether or not you trust me or her, it does make sense when I heard it explained. With all the passengers in each rig and annual pass holders, it averages out to be what they say is taken in.

[barefoot bob]

What would we need the grants for? I'll tell you what for. So our user fees don't keep going up and up or for better rescue vehicles and equipment. I have no problem paying for the use of Dumont, but when the grants were cut last year WE payed the difference. Again, I don't mind paying it, but when the sate of California uses grant money like this (for new dirtbikes, a Rhino, a Tahoe, and a commant post) only to PATROL more in other areas, it just seems like money spent foolishly.

You seem to be missing my point of this topic.

and the vehicles they have are not present on off weekends for rescue so where does there dune buggy go when its not at dumont ?? where r they ?? heck its almost like your in greater danger going on an off weekend than a busy weekend. it seems they raised the fees and are doing less in my opinion.maybe the fees caused the government to say ok you raised your fees well take back even more grant money.

were already being taxed twice. part of your fedral tax goes to public lands. and yet we get charged for the same public lands we pay taxes to take care of. plus green sticker money. my god we pay more to support public land than the dumb a$$ greenies which seem to be sucking grant money through a straw.

i would like to know whats going on with the grant money as well. granted we dont need a boat load of blm on an off weekend but even 1 well equiped unit should at least be provided. i/e wheres the effen buggy.

case in point capt having to take rescuers up the hill. people from our camp having to use there vehicle as a herse.

obviously glamis getting there grant money you should see all the law enforcement hwy patrol sherriffs blm dune buggies copters and its only 20 bucks

ya i want to know where the grant money is as well

[dunefreak]

and the vehicles they have are not present on off weekends for rescue so where does there dune buggy go when its not at dumont ?? where r they ?? heck its almost like your in greater danger going on an off weekend than a busy weekend. it seems they raised the fees and are doing less in my opinion.maybe the fees caused the government to say ok you raised your fees well take back even more grant money.

were already being taxed twice. part of your fedral tax goes to public lands. and yet we get charged for the same public lands we pay taxes to take care of. plus green sticker money. my god we pay more to support public land than the dumb a$$ greenies which seem to be sucking grant money through a straw.

i would like to know whats going on with the grant money as well. granted we dont need a boat load of blm on an off weekend but even 1 well equiped unit should at least be provided. i/e wheres the effen buggy.

case in point capt having to take rescuers up the hill. people from our camp having to use there vehicle as a herse.

obviously glamis getting there grant money you should see all the law enforcement hwy patrol sherriffs blm dune buggies copters and its only 20 bucks

ya i want to know where the grant money is as well :beer_bang:

aww come on, not more about our user fee money j/k

As for that though, our fees were only raised AFTER the grant money and funding was cut.

Glamis gets it's funding from green sticker money, Dumont does not. Not sure why that is.

My only b*tch with this whole thing is how Dumont is treated with the grant money. It's almost like "ok if there is any left over and if we don't blow it all in other places, you guys can have some afterwards."

The only thing I'd like to see the grant money go towards at Dumont (if they got any) would be for better rescue vehicles that are there with the camp hosts at all times and so our user fees don't keep going up and up because of lack of state backing and funding for Dumont Dunes rec area.

[barefoot bob]

aww come on, not more about our user fee money j/k

As for that though, our fees were only raised AFTER the grant money and funding was cut.

Glamis gets it's funding from green sticker money, Dumont does not. Not sure why that is.

My only b*tch with this whole thing is how Dumont is treated with the grant money. It's almost like "ok if there is any left over and if we don't blow it all in other places, you guys can have some afterwards." :beer_bang:

The only thing I'd like to see the grant money go towards at Dumont (if they got any) would be for better rescue vehicles that are there with the camp hosts at all times and so our user fees don't keep going up and up because of lack of state backing and funding for Dumont Dunes rec area.

well i said pretty much the same thing however. i did have to add that. it is a double tax and heck i wouldnt mind so much but the ones that spend less on public lands are getting all the grant money. while i help pay for it ...................

and why is it they dont get green sticker money ??? :poke:

[motoxman30]

What would we need the grants for? I'll tell you what for. So our user fees don't keep going up and up or for better rescue vehicles and equipment. I have no problem paying for the use of Dumont, but when the grants were cut last year WE payed the difference. Again, I don't mind paying it, but when the sate of California uses grant money like this (for new dirtbikes, a Rhino, a Tahoe, and a commant post) only to PATROL more in other areas, it just seems like money spent foolishly.

You seem to be missing my point of this topic. :boyyy:

but there were no grants comin in back in the 90s and there wasnt a fee to get in...so what is the correlation??

so today when we get a little grant money we get fees

and when the grant money drops a little we pay higher fees

how much does it cost to run and operate this place

and the patrol and emergency crew have a bunch of vehicles.

they got two ranger quads and a new yfz 450...along with an emergency buggy for injured people in the dunes...they also have tahoes.

seems like enough for a place 7 miles in diameter

+ on most of the injurys ive seen...its the fellow duners that help the person out not the emergency crew...i know ive come up on a buggy roled and a banshee trashed and it was us who helped em out

there was no emergency unit to take them to the hospital.

its us duners who take the injured to the medical trailer

the only time ive seen a cop at a crash was when two people died on the rolldown in their buggy 2 years ago

so if its us who handles alot of this then what is the use of all the vehicles??

+ they hand out a bunch of tickets on a busy weekend but that probably goes to the county

do u think the grants wouldve kept the price of the entrance fee lower??

put urself in their situation...they can give the grant to a bunch of different places that will satisfy their own interests or they can give it to a place they probably have never been before

[EY3BA11]

if you looked at the link you that was posted earlier about where our money goes you would see that our fees are only used to maintain WHAT we currently have out there.. Someone has to pay the doubletime paycheck's for all of those EMS personell, BLM staff, so on and so forth.. Someone has to pay to keep the crappers pumped out, someone has to pay for the camphosts who clean up after nasty a$$ duners.. 20 years ago people just crapped in a bush.. It costs to have luxory's and keep them. And yes if the state wouldnt have dropped the grant money our fees wouldnt have gone up. And it was said at a TRT meeting between the BLM and duners that "IF" we get our grant money back that the fee's would probably drop to what they used to be..

I think bitching about user fee's is like bitching about politicians when you dont vote.. You didnt vote you dont have a right to b*tch.. You havent been to a TRT meeting you shouldnt be able to complain until you go and SEE what actually goes on.

ok rant over

[motoxman30]

if you looked at the link you that was posted earlier about where our money goes you would see that our fees are only used to maintain WHAT we currently have out there.. Someone has to pay the doubletime paycheck's for all of those EMS personell, BLM staff, so on and so forth.. Someone has to pay to keep the crappers pumped out, someone has to pay for the camphosts who clean up after nasty a$$ duners.. 20 years ago people just crapped in a bush.. It costs to have luxory's and keep them. And yes if the state wouldnt have dropped the grant money our fees wouldnt have gone up. And it was said at a TRT meeting between the BLM and duners that "IF" we get our grant money back that the fee's would probably drop to what they used to be..

I think bitching about user fee's is like bitching about politicians when you dont vote.. You didnt vote you dont have a right to b*tch.. You havent been to a TRT meeting you shouldnt be able to complain until you go and SEE what actually goes on.

ok rant over

wait dude

im takin business and i know there is no way in hell they are using all that money

it doesnt cost a million dollars a year to pump out a toilet or grade the road or even pay leos and emergency personel for workin 10 percent of the year

and they dont clean up our trash...WE DO!!!

WE PICK UP FOR THE ONES NOT RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO DO IT

thats why theres clean up weekend

now that i think of it money is always good

and yeah they did spend it in an irresponsible way but what can we do??

and id like to get a personal opinion from dunefreak on how we could improve dumont

besides keeping it clean and maintained...what can be added??

just outta curiosity...what do u have in mind??

[dunefreak]

wait dude

im takin business and i know there is no way in hell they are using all that money

it doesnt cost a million dollars a year to pump out a toilet or grade the road or even pay leos and emergency personel for workin 10 percent of the year

and they dont clean up our trash...WE DO!!!

WE PICK UP FOR THE ONES NOT RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO DO IT

thats why theres clean up weekend

now that i think of it money is always good

and yeah they did spend it in an irresponsible way but what can we do??

and id like to get a personal opinion from dunefreak on how we could improve dumont

besides keeping it clean and maintained...what can be added??

just outta curiosity...what do u have in mind??

First off they don't take in a million dollars a year.

And second, I don't think Dumont needs ANY improvements. I like it just the way it is. BUT, if there is grant money that is going to be allocated no matter what, then I think Dumont is higher on the prioirty list than other places. I don't see why you haven't understood my point of this thread yet. I was trying to make it clear that the money would be better spent on recsue vehicles or for expenses that Dumont already has.

[motoxman30]

First off they don't take in a million dollars a year.

And second, I don't think Dumont needs ANY improvements. I like it just the way it is. BUT, if there is grant money that is going to be allocated no matter what, then I think Dumont is higher on the prioirty list than other places. I don't see why you haven't understood my point of this thread yet. I was trying to make it clear that the money would be better spent on recsue vehicles or for expenses that Dumont already has.

take it easy bro...im not tryin to start anything im just trying to get ur opinion on it

but if we look at how many people come in on a holiday weekend we can assume its probably around 5-10K rigs...about 5 percent of em have season passes leaving the rest to buy a weekend pass...there are around 5 big weekends in a year...so theresa pretty large sum of money coming in dont u agree??

it should be sufficient enough to keep the place running i mean afterall...its a desert.

with the grant money we could buy more emergency vehicles i got u on that

but dont we have enough emergency vehicles out there on a given weekend??

i havent counted but i always see their trailer out there

but i suppose a little grant money could help with the fees for transportation into baker

do u know what the income is and the price it is to maintain the place??...that would determine whether we need the grants or not...thats how i see the grants and entrance fees are connected

but by adding more emergency vehicles its gonna cost more to maintain right??

[EY3BA11]

you seriously didnt see the budget from last season did you... If you read that public budget you will see where our funds go... and see why it costs so much to keep the place the way it is... LEO's and EMS crews ARENT cheap.

and im sure there is alot more than 5% of the duners have season pass's.. i would lay odds its more in the 20-30% region..

[motoxman30]

you seriously didnt see the budget from last season did you... If you read that public budget you will see where our funds go... and see why it costs so much to keep the place the way it is... LEO's and EMS crews ARENT cheap.

and im sure there is alot more than 5% of the duners have season pass's.. i would lay odds its more in the 20-30% region..

i doubt that

cuz the people who have season passes are the ones who go out there on the off weekends

i went out there on an off weekend...it was only a small fraction of how many people were there on a holiday weekend and not even all of them had season passes.

id like to get a lil input from dunefreak and if u have any of the numbers send em over

[dunefreak]

i doubt that

cuz the people who have season passes are the ones who go out there on the off weekends

i went out there on an off weekend...it was only a small fraction of how many people were there on a holiday weekend and not even all of them had season passes.

id like to get a lil input from dunefreak and if u have any of the numbers send em over

Not sure why my input matters so much on this subject. Besides...I thought I already gave my input.

Here, the numbers have already been posted for you to see. You have to click on the link.

What money are you talking about? This thread isn't about Dumont user fee money. Its about state grants that get distributed to the state's entities. NONE of this grant money that I am talking about gets used for Dumont. Maybe just maybe the CA Sherrif's dept might use that new Tahoe to come out on a big weekend at Dumont to help patrol, but none of the vehicles purchased nor the command post is used for Dumont. It is for areas like Stoddard Wells and other places.

And as for the money that is taken in, I have no clue where you are getting your figures from. 1 million dollars annually from Dumont user fees?? Take at look at the figures from 06/07. You will see that there was no where near 1 million dollars collected. That is for another thread though.

I am done with this topic now because "we" keep talking about things that have been beaten into the ground over and over in the past. Besides, those things are off topic anyhow. The thread was started to talk about the grant money that was used in other areas. Ok, now I'm done.